Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

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Bullit
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Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 10 Apr 2013, 17:04

I have a couple of instance that i want to SRT sequencially , this is triggered by geometry. So far so good.
But the SRT speed is too fast and i want to slow it down or have control of its speed. This is where troubles start...
I put a Modulate Value over Time(MVoT) but the issue is that all instances have the same value in rotation since the MVoT have a fixed time start. They start at different time but the start SRT is at position the MVoT leads them to.
To exemplify:
So lets suppose the first instance (I1) rotation starts at 0 degree, all okay. Lets suppose at time that I1 accomplishes 10º rotation, the next instance lets call it I2 will start. But I2 instead of starting from 0º it jumps from its 0º position to 10º and starts to rotate at slow velocity from then on. All instances will obviously end the rotation at same time. If there are many and the rotation speed is not so slow or the rotation is short many will not even start.

Another option that i don't know if it is possible to achieve is to have a velocity control for rotations, scaling and translation. Any other ideas?

NNois
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 20:33

Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 10 Apr 2013, 21:17

Hi, About the modulate value over time there is a trick to randomize the start frame.
Here's attached a modified compound who did it.
He take a normalized scalar value from 0 to 1 to drive the modulated input, basicaly you need to feed the "Step data" with the particles ID's ranged from 0 to 1 (use a self.ID->Build array from Set->Get Array Maximum->Rescale).

I made it to play nice with the motion tools compounds, to proceduraly control animation of the particles over time ;-).
For example you can feed in "Step data" the Normalized_ID_U or Normalized_ID_V of motion tools to precisely control animation over particles. I'll do some screenshots if i have time.
Attachments
NN Modulate Value Over Time 2.xsicompound
(34.19 KiB) Downloaded 90 times

Bullit
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 10 Apr 2013, 21:52

Thanks will look into its logic and see if i can change it to be triggered the time the geometry passes over an instance/particle.

Edit: Unfortunately doesn't appear working with Motion Tools - Modify with Object Node.

NNois
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 11 Apr 2013, 09:49

Of course it works, let me build you a test scene

NNois
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 20:33

Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 11 Apr 2013, 10:05

Here is a test scene
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8zfnf9o3c9ikw ... r_Time.zip
Here I input in it a modified "linear stepper" from motion tools in the NN Modulate Over Time compound, to randomize the start frame it's the parametter "Start Variance"
The point here is to just input a Start time value in it, a Duration of the whole effect, and a per particle duration. There is also options to control the sorting of the Step Value.
Edit: The blend color here isn't working and is here just to better see particles
Attachments
Modulate_over_time_randomized.JPG

Bullit
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 11 Apr 2013, 12:26

Still doesn't work sorry :). You can't get all boxes going from 0 to 90º ( to simplify let's restrict it just to one axis and to rotation) sequentially in your scene despite that being the value put in modify by object. I tried and couldn't get any reliable way to do it.

NNois
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 20:33

Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 11 Apr 2013, 13:25

Effectively there was a bug ! Here's a corrected compound and scene, yesterday i've cleaned the compound to send you and introduced this bug, sorry.

Plus Modify with Objet of motion tools isn't really reliable here, use Modulate by Volume (the factory compound) ;-)

the scene link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmh6w9c6eeqjr ... r_Time.scn
edit: and a second example showing how to use the motion tools V attribute (but in your case, you need to use "Random order" in my compound)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4m6puy9vz722k ... usingV.scn
Attachments
NN Modulate Value Over Time 2.1.1.xsicompound
(25.9 KiB) Downloaded 98 times

Bullit
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 11 Apr 2013, 14:11

It works now, but only all inside the volume. If i do by moving/deforming the cube volume they just rotate fast not slow so i can't trigger by moving over. Not a big issue i think.
I am also to see how i can put this to work with my setup. My emit node emits a particle per object position in a group so arbitrary, it works with MT Modify by Transform but when i put your node into multiplier everything goes red.

He it is if you want to take a look: http://www.mediafire.com/?d8d17nvf1ukkdyo

NNois
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 20:33

Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 11 Apr 2013, 14:47

I've taken a look, this is because you aren't using motion tools any more so you haven't U or V normalized values on your particles
You have two choices:
- just unplug the step chooser and set my compound to use "random order" it will take the point ID
- OR add Normalized IDs by stoling a "Assign Normalized ID" from the "Create Point Array on Geometry" Compound like in my screenshot

edit:PS about your trigger thing, in a modeling region you can't trigger like in a simulated one...
Attachments
Capture.JPG

Bullit
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 11 Apr 2013, 15:27

Many thanks.
Also thanks about the trigger warning still have to put my head around it.


Edit: NNois it seems there is a bug in Time Control>Start

It doesn't seem to work. I noticed this while putting two of this effects successively.

NNois
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 12 Apr 2013, 10:09

you're right, sorry i'm not very good at releasing compound and introduce bugs, maybe i should just give you my base node... i'll look at it

NNois
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 12 Apr 2013, 11:46

So Update...
- A bug free compound
- Incorporated stepper for motion tools so no need to plug the step chooser thing
Attachments
NN Modulate Value Over Time 2.1.2.xsicompound
(46.07 KiB) Downloaded 73 times

Bullit
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 12 Apr 2013, 17:32

I was about to say you gone to k*ll me :).... but i got it working . It seems the Assign Normalize ID affects the start frame!?
The only way i found it working is putting it a end of ice tree which is bizarre i think.

Scene is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?emmo3mluq1923b6

Check Pointcloud1 trying to do how a succession of SRT's selecting different particles by different volume could work.
If you change the assign normalize ID it might create havoc with start times.

NNois
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 20:33

Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 12 Apr 2013, 18:40

i'll take a look in a couple hours, just curious about what you are building ;-)

edit: I haven't already take a look at your scene but basically if you want to modulate things you need to make a decision about what you want to modulate. The assign normalized ID do an auto U or V or W ramp to a base for modulation, so yes if for example you are modulating in X (U) and your other "modulate by geo" is placed at the right of the particles, yes the time is shifted accordingly.

to make it clear a basic example:
- 10 are particles placed in X 0,1,2,3... 10
- the assigned normalized ID is set to U, so it generate a ramp of 0,0.1,0.2 ... 1
- from that my compound take this and create an Auto animated by time from the left particle to the right, for example if plugged in a modulate transform for scale. This generate a "reveal" from the left to the right ;-).
- The "Plus" for my compound here is that you can randomize all that, the start frame etc... very handy

so, (i've already said that i haven't looked at your scene right now) it looks like you are just wanting a random start frame triggered from a geo. then if it's the case the setup need to be the inverse, setting the "step" from the modulate by geo then using my compound taking this step and do the time modulate to drive your animation.

NNois
Posts: 754
Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 20:33

Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by NNois » 12 Apr 2013, 21:11

Hey so i've looked at your scene an re-read your first post...

Here is the compound in action with a custom step generated by the distance to geo.
The animation result is for a 50 frame animation
- The particles on the right in the volume start immediatly and animate in 50 frames
- The particles on the left (the furthest) starts at the frame 45 to complet in 5 frame

I guess this is what you wanted

Here is the scene plus the last modulate compound who accept a custom step

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6lpxwomlcloq ... Mod213.zip

PS: you can play now with the "Start varience to randomize"...
Attachments
NN_Modulate_Over_TimeMod213.JPG

Bullit
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Re: Modulate value over time with relative start frame?

Post by Bullit » 12 Apr 2013, 22:21

Thanks again NNois . I am researching a flexible SRT system where dozens of objects can be SRT sequentially, partially(i can just choose some) , mixed etc - think Transformers for furniture, cars, buildings or even abstract- artistically. For example i rotate those with an Odd ID then those with an even ID, then i choose those that are triggered by volume that is in left and the volume that in right at same time but different direction, then came another volume that scales them, or opens(translation) the drawers, scaling the pushers etc. Imagination is the limit!

I have sent you a PM.

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