Houdini 17

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Maximus
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Maximus » 07 Oct 2018, 14:24

lol what? :D

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Mathaeus
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Mathaeus » 07 Oct 2018, 22:37

As a matter of fact, I don't know for any simulation solver in Houdini that's faster than in some other app, while good number of them are significantly (many times) slower, like current cloth or wire. New Vellum thing looks promising, but I don't believe it will be anywhere as fast as nVidia Flex. There is a number of solutions a way weaker than someone would expect, like NurbS engine, or simply inadequate *and* slow, like CHOPs for character animation. Anyway, speed and out-of-the-box quality seems not to be their goal, IMHO they are all around let's call it ''artist unfriendly control'' over simulations, where final result is more an excuse for endless playing with code, options how to do this or that.
On opposite side, while control over solvers and operators in Maya is horrible sometimes, the all Maya engines and solvers, all time, were among the best, where only a few of them are acquisitions.
After all there's traditional role of filling the Maya gaps, but never trying to compete against it. Who knows, maybe that's a reason while H is still alive. Only one app was trying to compete in 1:1 ratio against Maya, that's Softimage.
Imho all that H development is running somewhere around usual perception of 3d DCC, they are somehow orbiting. Last serious try to land into ''classic'' 3d world, imho it was Animation Editor in H 15 or so, but that's annulled by integration with CHOPs, basically a sound processing system meant to do something with animation.

NNois
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by NNois » 08 Oct 2018, 11:18

wesserbro wrote: 05 Oct 2018, 15:31 i see nothing special. just some attempts to catch up with other big players.
well, maybe fluids..
uhh, catch up what exactly? the idea behind Houdini is the ability to work more intelligently without having to push button in sequences eight hours a day. In that case other "big players" are pretty bad at it...

wesserbro
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by wesserbro » 08 Oct 2018, 11:47

NNois, the idea is great but for H works only in some areas (like multisolver simulation, controlled destruction). Latest changes driven by the hype after the death of softimage is an attempt to catch up in other areas like modeling, animation etc.
And i think this thing about replacing 8-hours button clicking with intelligent state-of-the-art node&code system in H is kind of a lure: while its true about node'n'code, its basically the opposite of 'state-of-art' - illogical and slow. That being said, for some tasks Houdini at least provide this "ripping-hair-on-the-ass" way, when other provide basically nothing.

jamination
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by jamination » 08 Oct 2018, 22:40

Are these critical opinions of Houdini coming from actual Houdini users, I am still using Softimage exclusively but I am thinking about the next package I am going to use.
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Mathaeus
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Mathaeus » 08 Oct 2018, 23:47

jamination wrote: 08 Oct 2018, 22:40 Are these critical opinions of Houdini coming from actual Houdini users, I am still using Softimage exclusively but I am thinking about the next package I am going to use.
In my case it's coming from at least 1K hours. maybe much more with Houdini since v13 from 2014, one of results is this thing, it's downloadable from Houdini Orbolt for free, there's'more about on Odforce thread . Definitively it's not coming from making money with H, simply there is no available commercial H license where I working. Before I've started with Softimage XSI around 2004, already knew basics of Maya, so it was possible mission for me to go back. Before that, I was a hardcore supporter of POV-Ray, renderer basically controlled by command line. From that point of view, entire Houdini world is much, much closer to POV-Ray or maybe even Processing experience than any ''classic 3d experience'', it's something I believe I can understand and I'd be happy to use for making money, If I can.
However, :) when sentence is starting with ''using Softimage exclusively but I am thinking about the next package"', a word Houdini is simply not the end of that sentence, and will not be in future, in my opinion. Any other 3d fits better there, that's all I wanted to say. After all, perhaps we should respect the Houdini identity, not asking impossible.

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Bullit » 08 Oct 2018, 23:55

What kind of work do you do Phil?

New Cinema 4D got Fields which makes possible to affect many things with many things so to speak.

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by jamination » 09 Oct 2018, 00:17

I do a lot of character animation which is why I am so reluctant to switch to anything. I would like to add some special effects stuff in addition, fire, smoke, basic collision type stuff, nothing too complicated. I am finding that I have more and more trouble keeping my Momentum license working. I thought Houdini "might" be good for those things, but to be truthful I don't want a HUGE learning curve, I just don't have the time, I am already too busy. I love to work with ICE and I am comfortable using it to my abilities, I do also a lot of motion graphics stuff which I find ICE perfect for. I have tried to use the mograph stuff in C4D, however I find it a bit limiting and I have much more control using ICE.
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Bullit » 09 Oct 2018, 02:50

Momentum is free now i think, what is your problem with license?

This is new plugin for character animation now for 3DsMax will be released for Cinema 4D soon. But no facial stuff.



C4D have Voronoi Fracture embeded with dynamics you can do a lot with it even artistic stuff:


jamination
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by jamination » 09 Oct 2018, 03:48

The problem is the old version worked better at mesh caching , the new on uses Alembic and I am not sure it the kinks were ever worked out, it works fine, when my license works for particle caching. I'll have to check out the videos. thanks.
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NNois
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Re: Houdini 17

Post by NNois » 09 Oct 2018, 10:18

...
Last edited by NNois on 10 Oct 2018, 10:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by NNois » 09 Oct 2018, 10:38

Bullit wrote: 09 Oct 2018, 02:50 This is new plugin for character animation now for 3DsMax will be released for Cinema 4D soon. But no facial stuff.
plugins plugins plugins...
As soon you enter the production phase, the thing in one way or another will cause you pain, incompatibilities or something, that's a fact and a reality. After more than 20y in the Industry, I can assure you black boxed plugins are bad and counter-productive. How many times have you started with a software providing the first 90% of the last 10% is a nightmare ???

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by julca » 09 Oct 2018, 12:12

I'm using Houdini more and more since 2/3 years. Some projects at 100%, other with more modeling and tie deadline on soft I must admit..
But the modeling in H isn't bad at all, there are lots of good tools ! It's just that softimage has spoiled us so much in terms of ergonomics 9) that it's hard to change.

I really like the whole Houdini system with their nodes and the "Full Procedural" phylosophy.
And if some can be afraid with that I can say that's node is "just" a different wayexpression to describe operators like the modeling operators stack in soft.
You "can" explore node graph and resolve complex situations easily with that or simply work with the viewport tools and menus like in soft (nodes will be created automatically).
You can also freeze modeling like in soft, but here you can (once freezed) conserve history with no cost node just in case !

And I'm also impressed by the tons of news things at each release and the fact that they don't seems to hesitate to revamp whole parts of program when needed.
H17 seems to be again great realase ! Good job sidefx !

Cheers !

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Mathaeus » 09 Oct 2018, 15:48

jamination wrote: 09 Oct 2018, 00:17 I just don't have the time, I am already too busy.
I think there's only two things in other apps, possible to figure out in few hours, looking only from SI experiance: Maya Graph Editor and Maya Time Editor (our AE and AnimMixer), of course with a bit of forgiveness.
About motion graphics in Houdini, if you don't have a time but you do have some kind of influence, perhaps is good idea to present your list of typical tasks to authors of MOPs. MOPs is one of rare specialized solutions for H. One huuuuge problem of Houdini is almost non existent audience of end users. Half of Houdiniers wants to be authors of some great and unique solution, another half are just ignorant optimists. There is no even a decent and finished tree generator to find, as an ordinary example of procedural approach.

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by Bullit » 09 Oct 2018, 16:19

NNois wrote: 09 Oct 2018, 10:38
Bullit wrote: 09 Oct 2018, 02:50 This is new plugin for character animation now for 3DsMax will be released for Cinema 4D soon. But no facial stuff.
plugins plugins plugins...
As soon you enter the production phase, the thing in one way or another will cause you pain, incompatibilities or something, that's a fact and a reality. After more than 20y in the Industry, I can assure you black boxed plugins are bad and counter-productive. How many times have you started with a software providing the first 90% of the last 10% is a nightmare ???
I live on plugins since i started in 3D 20 years ago, most of them made possible to make projects fast and well. No, that is not a "fact and reality."

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Re: Houdini 17

Post by NNois » 09 Oct 2018, 17:13

Bullit wrote: 09 Oct 2018, 16:19 I live on plugins since i started in 3D 20 years ago, most of them made possible to make projects fast and well. No, that is not a "fact and reality."
If you're working for a living, producing and workarounding with plugins fine.
But actually, I was thinking Softimage people was part of a different style, ones who actually care about a well-developed software, capable out-of-the-box of everything without plugins (ok Arnold saves us and is an exception) ;-)

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