Biosuit WIP

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Mathaeus
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 30 Jun 2017, 14:23

Well just for nit picking :), when it comes to getting a new, ''fresh" HDA, generally I'm following procedure described by one of Houdini gurus, somewhere on forums, which seems to be a way more than just a few cliks. In any case, procedure is much longer, more dangerous and complicated than in Fabric and, perhaps, other upcoming visual programming systems.
So here's how it is going in H:


"The way I do it is to not unlock the original asset at all but make my own copy first with the Operator Type Manager and put either in my sandbox directory (any directory that you do test stuff in or desktop which is the new /tmp ), add that and edit that.

1. RMB on node and choose “Operator Type Manager…”.

This opens up the Operator Type Manager with the given node highlighted.

2. RMB on the selected operator definition in the Operator Type Manger and choose the “Copy…” option.

This opens up the create new asset definition pop up widget to give your asset a new name and label. Definitely give it a unique new name and unique new label. In tab menus, it's the label that determines the sorting so I add suffix (after name) to identify uniqueness but still shows up with the original version.

3. Give your asset a new name and label along with a directory location and file name with a .hda extension. Then press Accept.

Now add your new node to the same network. MMB on the node to verify that it is your new defined node in the directory that you saved it in with the correct file name.

Unlock and edit away. "

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Mathaeus
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 30 Jun 2017, 21:37

mc_axe wrote:Dayum nice detail
Thanks
Basically I have one Maya file with everything related, from rigged models to all pieces of suit, I'm doing material assignments in Maya too . Houdini part is combining and deforming the things from loaded obj files (name of Maya Shading group is recognized as material name in H - for same with SI is SI cluster name plus material name). That Maya part is huge help, to recognize things visually. Transition wise, Maya is going somehow much better than I've expected, at least with fundamentals of 3d, like rigging and modeling. There's a sort of 'zBrush feel', of not so well organized software, but easy to 'get in flow'. In any case, after less than one year of really intensive usage, seems to be possible to 'get focus on creation', mainly thinking of *what* I want to do, not *how*.

Anyway here's last night trial. This time I've added a classic directional light together with environment map (first one is only environment map). While I have a custom envmap generator in H, able to create a precise HDR contrasting, from values around 60 - 80 to bellow 1, and Mantra is really good with sampling that chalenges, envmap lighting alone is still dispersed too much for my taste (nothing wrong with Mantra, here). By the way, 60 - 80 are HDR values where Mantra is able to do significant hair highlights or such, from plain envmap.

For now, my main concern is boring 'old fashion diving suit' coloration, I want something lighter, just for change. But it seems I'll need to go with radical changes in colors for something like that. Will see..

Image

NNois
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by NNois » 03 Jul 2017, 12:58

Hehe,
Well, you're describing a very specific workflow about modifying directly a factory node and without wrapping it so yes overwriting it has consequences...

Previously I was speaking about what we do generally in ICE with compound, we select the node, create compound , save, done. Reuse later
In Houdini you select the node, click asset/new digital asset from selection, save, done...

Plus you have the option to use the gallery, I tend to use it instead of HDAs. Generating a gallery item is super easy, you just have to drag/drop nodes to save it or to use it.
Plus generating a gallery item creat automatically a new "preset". For example if you're modifying the transform node, adding expressions to auto center by COG for example, you generate a gallery item to reuse later, then you'll also get a node preset generated automatically when houdini starts ;-)
Mathaeus wrote:Well just for nit picking :), when it comes to getting a new, ''fresh" HDA, generally I'm following procedure described by one of Houdini gurus, somewhere on forums, which seems to be a way more than just a few cliks. In any case, procedure is much longer, more dangerous and complicated than in Fabric and, perhaps, other upcoming visual programming systems.
So here's how it is going in H:


"The way I do it is to not unlock the original asset at all but make my own copy first with the Operator Type Manager and put either in my sandbox directory (any directory that you do test stuff in or desktop which is the new /tmp ), add that and edit that.

1. RMB on node and choose “Operator Type Manager…”.

This opens up the Operator Type Manager with the given node highlighted.

2. RMB on the selected operator definition in the Operator Type Manger and choose the “Copy…” option.

This opens up the create new asset definition pop up widget to give your asset a new name and label. Definitely give it a unique new name and unique new label. In tab menus, it's the label that determines the sorting so I add suffix (after name) to identify uniqueness but still shows up with the original version.

3. Give your asset a new name and label along with a directory location and file name with a .hda extension. Then press Accept.

Now add your new node to the same network. MMB on the node to verify that it is your new defined node in the directory that you saved it in with the correct file name.

Unlock and edit away. "

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Mathaeus
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 03 Jul 2017, 14:43

NNois wrote:Hehe,
Well, you're describing a very specific workflow about modifying directly a factory node and without wrapping it so yes overwriting it has consequences...
Actually it was about *my* nodes..... :) Of course, nothing impossible to learn, after all I think I am one of rare people who were able to successfully submit something to Orbolt (well, not from first trial.... :) ), and even get some response by users... :)
But, yeah I have to admit that, after three years, somehow I did not fell in love with that workflow. Looks like a set of great possibilities for pipeline, but also I've experienced things like two SOPs saved in one HDA with completely different name, local per file install where certain HDA appear in one file and not in another one, so on.

All that by my fault, of course, but anyway, let's go a bit further of me, me, me, me, and my skill - imho real question is, how all that works in hands of let's say proficient artist, who's not having any positive attitude toward HDA organisation and such great subjects. From my little experience with acceptation of ICE, and little bit of H, answer is : it doesn't work at all.
While system like let's say Fabric, gives a way nicer ways to give to both sides, coder and artist, what they want, imho. Some people simply do not want that "Houdini way", that's all I wanted to say. While again, with something like Fabric, it can go as just another set of more or less standard Maya nodes.

NNois
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by NNois » 06 Jul 2017, 10:37

Hi Mathaeus,
Yeah I understood all that of course.
I love your very good work, your talent, and, because of that you have a big voice here so I just wanted to be the little devil's advocate about houdini which I think is not that bad and is a very good replacement for softimage for some people ;-)

By the way can we see some of your work on fabric on a forum or something ?

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Mathaeus
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 06 Jul 2017, 13:19

NNois wrote:Hi Mathaeus,

By the way can we see some of your work on fabric on a forum or something ?
Thanks for nice words.

Not really, my ability to post on forums and my freedom of speech :) is related to my own software, that's XSI 7.01, Modo 8.1, latest Maya LT and of course latest Houdini Indie. Not that much sense of doing something solely by Fabric Canvas, imho - while in reality, when it comes to facilities and jobs, facts are somehow inverted - we all know that Maya or Max are much widely accepted than H.

This weekend is dedicated to background of pic, created in Houdini, of course. Stones, sand waves (if I'll find some feasible way to get that pattern) and such things.

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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 12 Jul 2017, 02:34

That's closer to final. Bright things on sides are mock ups, will put something else instead of them. Looking from positive side, just to mention a few nice things in Houdini and Mantra world:

Point rendering. Used it for dust on suits, also on ground, to avoid unpleasant 3d look of 'things' trying to be stones, scattered on plane. Somehow it melts the look of all things used for emitters. It's plain scatter of few millions points, density modified by noise, dot product to Y axis, curvature, whatever. Allowed me to use low poly, simple 'stones' created by hand in Maya. While there are nice stone generators for H, all that creates a bit too much of polygons.

'Ends' SOP and Hair Normal shading VOP. First one is able to turn polygons into lines by one click, creating a sort of renderable wireframes. Second allows to use any shader on top of this. Used it to exaggerate an intentional faceted look of suit, also to avoid bitmaps for cloth textures. For now, only bitmap is environment map. Will ad textures for skin shading, that probably will be everything about textures, here.

Constant Smoke shader. As name says, this one does not calculate scattering or self shadowing, so it's a way faster to render. It still takes color and density from VDB voxels, so, pratically anything except maybe believable scattering is possible to get by volume VOPs in VDB calculations, before any rendering. Used this one for depth fog, have plans for more ambitious tasks.

Played a bit with realistic sand waves, it seems that only some recursive, packing method is able to create a typical Y branches, together with typical almost even distribution - so nothing of that for now, too much of hassle for backround.

Image

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Daniel Brassard » 13 Jul 2017, 20:22

Hi Mathaeus,

Great job on the character designs and polish render. Your feedback on H is interesting and informative.

Have you considered changing the helmet designs to be in line with the organic biosuit? The current design is acting like a magnifying lense, increasing the head size of the character and IMHO not fitting with the rest of the biosuit design.

I found those on the web for inspiration. Overall great job on the scene.

Cheers!
Attachments
Motorcycle-helmets.jpg
helmet-design-futuristic.jpg
helmet-design-futuristic.jpg (12.45 KiB) Viewed 3373 times
Faora_Krypton Helmet.jpg
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Daniel Brassard » 13 Jul 2017, 20:24

A few more for yours to experiment with.
Attachments
drow_armored_mask_by_sharpener.jpg
drow_armored_mask_by_sharpener.jpg (13.09 KiB) Viewed 3206 times
Tron_helmet.jpg
Tron_helmet.jpg (5.86 KiB) Viewed 3206 times
Pacific_Rim_helmet.jpg
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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Mathaeus
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 14 Jul 2017, 12:09

Daniel Brassard wrote:Hi Mathaeus,

Have you considered changing the helmet designs to be in line with the organic biosuit? The current design is acting like a magnifying lense, increasing the head size of the character and IMHO not fitting with the rest of the biosuit design.

Thank you kindly for focusing on ''real" questions :). Also for making clear what I should write together with pics, one day when I'll consider them finished.

Design is a mix of purely visual needs and (my) possibilities, and inspirations from all around. "Biosuit" here stands for ''tight'', not really ''alive'' or ''biological''. So, loosely along line of MIT's bio suit. While stripes and harness system here, theoretically is acting like some sort of elastic exoskeleton, or something like.

Regarding helmet, generally wanted a huge, fixed one (fixed = does not move together with head). There's strong visual reason, to be able to show entire head and of course some hairdo (from what I've read, there's similar reason for huge helmet in Martian movie, they just wanted to show actor's face, as much). However I'm planning to add some mechanisms for eating, drinking, hair styling and such, inside helmet. That should allow to put some googles or such on head, too, in case I'll want to de-personalize the characters. Also, such mechanism should give a smoother visual transition between suit and helmet.
One special reason for this kind of helmet, it was that I wasn't sure how hairs will render bellow transparent surface, so it was option to just remove the helmet. Hopefully this works, well as long as plain transparency/opacity is used.

Regrading inspirations, as usually I'm looking for scfi and general designs before 70's, imho there is no that much that happened after. Somehow, here design started from Planeta Bur movie and unbelievable talent of authors to find a sweet spot between practical and aesthetic (that small flying car thing imho is still unmatched) - many years later, same helmet design appeared in Prometeus movies, imho simply because there is not better and is still logical design (logical= ability to open the front side of helmet).

About references you posted, Faora's mask is really great and really really innovative, but it seems they lost inspiration with rest of suit, falling into stereotypes like scratched steel. About others.... I'm really really not a fan of imho, ''exaggerations, modern for one or two years'', like ''helmet-design-futuristic.jpg'' wavy thing, also I'm not not a fan of booleans all around.
Shape has to serve functionality, that's it. In other word, let's take cars as example, Porshe 911 or Citroen DS are designs forever. Functional, elegant, simple and provocative in same time. I'm also a fan of NASA ''Z" ''bubble'' suit design, while I think they can go further with this, design wise.

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mc_axe
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by mc_axe » 15 Jul 2017, 03:04

z bubble suit 0o i tottaly forgot about this one
Image
Im not so exited about entering from the back instead of wearing it (as a standard for all kinds of future suits) maybe for space suits that is ok( or im just saying this because i never been through the strugle of wearing one normal suit ;p). I maybe like too much the Iron man way of entering in a suit heh. But what i surelly like is the design for the helm/glass embeded to the neck/shoulders, it looks advanced and practical.

If i was trying to design a spin off of that design ment for lets say Mars terraform,, i would try to make the glass cover move along with the head (more freelly), i would bring all the suit more close to the body (like in your design), and i could possiblty throw some augmented reality ui in the mix. In general terraform suits can be potentionaly much more flexible than space walk suits. Im just commenting on zbubble you know that i alrdy like your design . I think with some color stripes it will look awesome.

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Daniel Brassard » 17 Jul 2017, 16:48

@Mathaeus

Thanks for the insight about the suit and your inspiration behind the choice of the helmet. I did understand that you wanted to show the full head and hair and why you chose the all glass helmet. Looking forward to see where you are going to push this designs.

Cheers!
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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Mathaeus
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Re: Biosuit WIP

Post by Mathaeus » 08 Aug 2017, 03:54

Thank you guys

Important things first... Just found an answer to question that bothered me for decades :), how do astronauts scratch their nose in their spacesuits. I'd take it as a yet another reason for huge and fixed helmet.

Here are new renders, let's say some of finals. From technical side, it went just fine, been able to fit all that crap into my 16 gigs of memory, actually it was always below 10 gigs. Mantra rendering is separate process, which means, when rendering single still picture to MPlay, once MPlay window is launched, Houdini could be closed, leaving more memory for Mantra. ip/MPlay option is one that displays the pic as it renders, giving a nice visual experience, also around half of hour for fighting on internet forums and such activities.

As usually, added a lot of point-sand-dust rendering, around 40 Mio of points at all. Probably will try to render one pic where everything is covered by sand. Houdini Scatter SOP evaluates fine, as long as it is left to evaluate it's SIMD story alone, without any 'post process' after, that means without relaxing too. That is, all attributes including 'width' (that's point radius or curve thickness in H) have to be set on emitter, before Scatter SOP. This disables the total per-point 'individualizing', however from my experiments, these small differences are almost invisible with such huge counts.


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