Zen Modo Interface

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El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 26 Aug 2014, 16:00

Rork wrote: Yes, the whole juggling of UI's is aggravating at times. I just don't understand why a basic UI is such a hard thing for Modo. The UI's atm forces you into a 'step for step' workflow, where you finish one thing, and go on with the next one.

We all know that just doesn't work, as one tends to be all over the place while working.
A small tweak on the model while animating, arr... go back to Modoeling.. Now scrub the timel...... crap, back to the animation UI. Rinse and repeat.... ;-)

rob
Well, to be fair, I'm not sure there's such a thing as a 'basic' UI, not in 2014... hehe...

But the segregation of tools into disparate layouts strikes me as a product of Modo's legacy as something that started out much simpler, but had an architecture that supported expansion. As things like Rendering, Painting, or Animation came online, they were grouped together in dedicated layouts. I think there may also be an element of Luxology's perception of how people work, wanting to focus on specific similar tasks at once. Just speculating here. In reality, it's a little of both isn't it? People do need to work on similar tasks, but they also need to access other seemingly unrelated tools on the fly. Fortunately, Modo's UI is so ridiculously flexible that you create some really powerful layouts, override shortcuts for specific layouts only, and even mouse button functionality if you like. It's so flexible in fact that you find yourself spending way more time in the design stages, trying to find what works best.

Modo really needs a more wholistic layout, and I'm planning on delving back into that.
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Rork
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by Rork » 26 Aug 2014, 16:12

El Burritoh wrote:Modo really needs a more wholistic layout, and I'm planning on delving back into that.
Keep us posted on that. I have some ideas as well, and am interested in your thoughts.
Last edited by Rork on 26 Aug 2014, 17:16, edited 1 time in total.
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

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MauricioPC
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by MauricioPC » 26 Aug 2014, 17:10

El Burritoh wrote:Modo really needs a more wholistic layout, and I'm planning on delving back into that.
I have no ideas yet on that, but I would love to see what you come up with!

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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by Rork » 27 Aug 2014, 10:47

I was looking into rebuilding Modo a bit like this:

Image

A more 'default' UI, as all the other 3D apps out there have. It's a small cosmetic change, but will help greatly.

Oh... For the ones wondering about the snapping bar and side panel.
The first is a script from Eterea, the other a "Softimage-a-like" panel build and generously shared by Franklin Aguilar Matos.

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

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MauricioPC
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by MauricioPC » 27 Aug 2014, 13:54

Rork wrote:I was looking into rebuilding Modo a bit like this:

Image

A more 'default' UI, as all the other 3D apps out there have. It's a small cosmetic change, but will help greatly.

Oh... For the ones wondering about the snapping bar and side panel.
The first is a script from Eterea, the other a "Softimage-a-like" panel build and generously shared by Franklin Aguilar Matos.

rob
I like this new UI with everything kind of together. Will try it out, thanks for the share.

El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 27 Aug 2014, 15:22

What I had in mind was a bit more radical. For example, there wouldn't even be any root-level tabs. Tabbed viewports would be used more for viewport types than collecting toolsets together, and all commands would be available along the left. Well, maybe not all.... anyway it's something I'm still monkeying around with.
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El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 27 Aug 2014, 15:35

Oh, and I'm also experimenting with another XSI-style behavior.... pressing different keys while hovering over an 'Explorer-type' window to switch what you're viewing (S for scene explorer, M for Materials, O for clips...). Modo allows you to configure keyboard shortcuts differently for all kinds of contexts, including for most viewport types. I'll see if I can share the config for that if I get something that's really reliable.
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by Rork » 27 Aug 2014, 16:09

Hi Tim,

Yes, a global disappearance of most tabs would be the main goal, my small tweak is just fixing some annoyances for workflow. So one doesn't have to juggle Tabs all the time..
But a radical redesign is much needed.

I also fiddled with keyboard shortcuts, but found it to be very finicky.... You can screw up Modo very quickly, as goes for the UI bits. ;-)

This might be an interesting thread for the Foundry forums as well. A lot of familiar names popped up the last couple of months. And I still feel the SI layout and workflow is one of the best out there.
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 27 Aug 2014, 16:48

I have a working config that will set keyboard shortcuts enabling the 'XSI Explorer' behavior, however there is one significant catch. They also work over viewports that are nested inside the main UI, including tabbed viewports. If I press one of the keys while over a tabbed viewport, it replaces the 'tabbed viewport' type with a single viewport. This implies several things, and I'll need to keep digging.
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by Rork » 27 Aug 2014, 17:43

I can recall a video about Modo's UI that partly adressed this. If I can find it, i'll post the link here.
Or at least it was something with shortcuts and the different parts of the UI.
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 27 Aug 2014, 17:55

If you're feeling brave, you can try out this config file (see attached). Just drop it in your User Configs folder and restart Modo. This is kind of experimental, and I recommend backing up your main config to be safe (actually I'd recommend that anyway). This config sets keyboard shortcuts for specific viewport types, allowing the user to 'jump' from one viewport type to another while staying in the same window.

Usage Example:
1. Press the '8' key to display an Item List as a floating palette.
2. With the cursor over this palette, press the 'D' key to switch it to a Deformers List.
3. Now press the 'V' key to switch a Vertex Maps List.

Current shortcuts available:
A: Audio List
C: Channels List
D: Deformers List
G: Groups List
I: Info and Statistics
O: Clips List
R: Shader Tree
S: Item List
V: Vertex Map List
X: References List

IMPORTANT:
1. In the case of the Channels List, the 'O' and 'I' keys are already mapped for I/O selection commands, therefore the Channels List does not yet have a corresponding set of shortcuts for jumping to the Clips List and Info/Stats viewports.

2. The usage example listed above describes use with a floating palette, but these shortcuts will apply to viewports in the standard UI too!!! If you press one of the keys listed above while hovering over such a list in the standard UI, that viewport will change as well. In the case of tabbed viewports, these will be changed to single viewports (no more tabs). In my case, I just deleted the tabs that contained a viewport of the types mentioned above. I'll try this out and see how it works. I'm so used to in XSI, but we'll see how it goes in Modo.
Attachments
xsiExplorerKeys.zip
Modo config for simulating XSI Explorer behavior.
(1.56 KiB) Downloaded 125 times
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El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 27 Aug 2014, 18:07

Here's an example of what the default UI would like, simplified to work with this config...
Attachments
example.jpg
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El Burritoh
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by El Burritoh » 27 Aug 2014, 21:36

Here's a current WIP of the UI I have been working on. I tried a long time ago to create something that could emulate XSI's layout, and quickly decided it wasn't really worth the effort: things don't have sufficient equivalence to support a UI that works like that in Modo, and I reasoned that there were better options to be used.

Basically, my thinking here is pretty much what you'd find in other apps.... Some things need to always be visible. Others not: the current set of commands can change depending on what you're doing, but that doesn't mean the entire layout has to. So the timeline is always there, the Item Lists are there, the Item properties, the passes, the horizontal toolbar at the top.... those are always there. The only things that change are the command groupings on the left, and the actual viewport context in the middle.

The Item Lists (Explorers) are set up similarly to XSI, allowing you to press a key while hovering over them to switch what they're displaying.

Still monkeying around with it, and I'm sure 901 will change some things. The tricky part with all this is not making things too customized, but referencing as much as possible those toolsets which The Foundry is free to change, so that those update automatically in my custom layout.
Attachments
ui.jpg
-Tim Crowson
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pcd
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by pcd » 28 Aug 2014, 12:21

i just looked at Zen interface and it's very nice, for my workflow at least. The biggest problem with Modo is with it's import plugins. Both alembic and fbx modules are messed up. When i export a fluid sequence from Houdini it's only show the first frame with an error message. Something like 'changing mesh topology is not supported'. Plus it's not updated to Agawa back end(latest one) so i need to use some utility to convert the file to older back end(hdf5 i think). Same issue with the fbx too, it's not importing the mesh/scene/animations properly. Trouble is that it is like so since version 701, and TF promised to fix the issue, but they didn't. So i am somehow on the edge to go purchase or not. On the other hand, the same scene works like a charm in c4d, but then the price is the same as Maya, without fluids and all that. Looks like i need to wait the version 901 to see if they will fix the import plugins issues.

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MauricioPC
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by MauricioPC » 28 Aug 2014, 14:30

pcd wrote:i just looked at Zen interface and it's very nice, for my workflow at least. The biggest problem with Modo is with it's import plugins. Both alembic and fbx modules are messed up. When i export a fluid sequence from Houdini it's only show the first frame with an error message. Something like 'changing mesh topology is not supported'. Plus it's not updated to Agawa back end(latest one) so i need to use some utility to convert the file to older back end(hdf5 i think). Same issue with the fbx too, it's not importing the mesh/scene/animations properly. Trouble is that it is like so since version 701, and TF promised to fix the issue, but they didn't. So i am somehow on the edge to go purchase or not. On the other hand, the same scene works like a charm in c4d, but then the price is the same as Maya, without fluids and all that. Looks like i need to wait the version 901 to see if they will fix the import plugins issues.
At least C4D has a sort of modular interface as well. Not half as powerful as the Modo one, but a very good one. These problems with Modo import are kind of crazy, given that now it's TF and they are all for pipeline integration, formats, etc.

I would go to C4D instead of Modo if C4D was cheaper. But for the price that is charged, it's hard to go that route.

pcd
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Re: Zen Modo Interface

Post by pcd » 28 Aug 2014, 15:30

MauricioPC wrote: At least C4D has a sort of modular interface as well. Not half as powerful as the Modo one, but a very good one. These problems with Modo import are kind of crazy, given that now it's TF and they are all for pipeline integration, formats, etc.
I would go to C4D instead of Modo if C4D was cheaper. But for the price that is charged, it's hard to go that route.
Yea, i am with you on this one bro. I mean, 3600 Euros, really??? This is like 4800USD, crazy amount of money for Cinema 4D. HoudiniFX full license(not Indie) is 4500 USD and it has Fluids, Pyro, and a million light years ahead of cinema 4d tools in all aspects(let's mention only VEX equivalent to ICE). I think they need to have only two versions: Prime and Studio for like 700$ and 2000$ maximum. If this would be the case i would buy studio in a minute. But to spend 4800$ on a generalist app, it would be money thrown out of the window. I mean, i would still need fluid and aero dynamics, powerful particles, dust and debris/fracturing system etc. This will rise the price of the app + plugins to the roof. I love cinema 4d, but i think they go to a wrong direction with this crazy pricing. I admit i am a bit confused as to witch route to go, but i already took Houdini path, and i think i will purchase Modo 901 to go along with it(you now, some non-procedural modeling; topo etc). Darn, i wish they will fix Modo importers, they will make my decision sooooo much easier. No way in hell i go Maya(although i can get 30% off from autodesk and be gone with it, but i just can't work in that nightmare of an app). Will figure it out eventually, it's not like i need to decide today.

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