3ds Max 2016

Forum for users who have migrated or are migrating to 3ds Max
NNois
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by NNois » 16 Apr 2015, 08:45

Mathaeus wrote:
NNois wrote:Rohan dalvi already said that's creation graph is useless because there is no feedback, as you have to save, then unload, then load you plugin to show the result.
Now imagine where you where if ICE don't gives you some feedback... no where.

So... What did they do for the sake of the futur of Max beside overhauled him by features ? a linux port ? a mac port ? a workflow redisgn by removing he's 90's root ? ... nothing
If this still comes from CG talk thread - he admited in next post, that he don't know anything about MCG. Only one poster (Borislav Petrov) knew some real info, but it seems he signed NDA.
I don't know but none of the video presents a "lookdev" workflow where you have feedback in realtime of what you are doing, IMO it's the most important thing... And each video carefully don't show this by or plug in the tree at the end / or masking the 3d viewport.
But honestly it's obvious and in line with the rest of the software

TheDutchOracle
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by TheDutchOracle » 16 Apr 2015, 08:47

mantragora wrote:
MauricioPC wrote:
... but you could say the same about Expresso in Cinema4d, which is (I think) the closest equivalent to MCG.
Exept xPresso is not merely specialised in modeling. (They said this in Max is primarilly focused on modeling, for now).
Xpresso in Cinema 4D can get every parameters of every object that you can drag in the xpresso window.
Amsterdam - Softimage 2013, "Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ICE".

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 16 Apr 2015, 11:33

It appears the trial is up (someone said it on CGTalk).

For those curious, at least it's possible to download and try it out.

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 16 Apr 2015, 11:53

NNois wrote:I don't know but none of the video presents a "lookdev" workflow where you have feedback in realtime of what you are doing, IMO it's the most important thing... And each video carefully don't show this by or plug in the tree at the end / or masking the 3d viewport.
But honestly it's obvious and in line with the rest of the software
And so I asked a friend, who is a developer and used MCG. He could tell me what he thought about it when he used.

He said that there's no realtime feedback, that the graph must be interpreted. But he still says it's a lot powerful.

So there you go. Not ICE, but then again, Max and Maya 2016 together aren't Softimage.

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Mathaeus
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by Mathaeus » 16 Apr 2015, 16:56

MauricioPC wrote:
He said that there's no realtime feedback, that the graph must be interpreted.
Compiled... :) Sorry for nit picking. By the way, Houdini is 'compiled' option, too. While real time feedback in Houdini is present, even in creation of nodes, it's not nearly as smooth as ICE. If you're tweaking something inside the VOP, it's many times slower than in 'normal', final playback. Nothing strange if entire result disappear when connecting some nodes, like switchers. On other side, there are bright points - in H, if you want something to cache, it's cached - no need to fight against ICE optimization, using weird workarounds. More than often, with heavy tasks, you don't even want it to execute immediately.
I've started with v13, it was enough to forget the visualizers.
I mean, there's always bright and no so bright side, somehow we like to remember only bright side of SI. Don't know yet, what really is 'dark side' of MCG thing, but already know what's bright side: huge community, huge number of potential users. After all, if people will be unhappy, Ephere or Fabric will find the interest, just as V-Ray grew up as 'better variance' of Mental Ray.

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FXDude
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by FXDude » 16 Apr 2015, 17:35

Feedback may be a drawback, but I think we can agree that that saying that it's "useless" can be a pretty big overstatement.

It's surely at least a very visual way to get to what normally involves scripting.

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 16 Apr 2015, 18:39

Mathaeus wrote:Compiled... :) Sorry for nit picking
No worries, that was the correct word, I got confused! :P

I do think MCG may be a great thing and it they develop more and update, who knows what it might turn into?

I'm downloading the 2016 to see what is in Maya and Max.

NNois
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by NNois » 16 Apr 2015, 19:32

FXDude wrote:Feedback may be a drawback, but I think we can agree that that saying that it's "useless" can be a pretty big overstatement.

It's surely at least a very visual way to get to what normally involves scripting.
Of course but i was must thinking about me, an artist who jump in ICE and visual programming BECAUSE there is feedback i just don't know if i even touch ICE if it was the contrary and i assume it's the same for a whole bunch of people...

Now that i have a "visual programming culture" due to ICE ease of understanding i'm sure i can jump in MCG easily. But i'm sure too, it's not the killer feature simply because of that.

By the way it's been some time i'm flying around testing different software, and something is crystal clear now -> UNREAL ENGINE / BLUEPRINT whouahhh

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 17 Apr 2015, 05:19

Intro videos for MCG, for those who want to understand the workings of it.

http://www.elarasystems.com/insights/ca ... lara-labs/

nodeway

Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by nodeway » 17 Apr 2015, 13:40

MauricioPC wrote:Intro videos for MCG, for those who want to understand the workings of it.
I'm after 1 video, "PushLimited MCG Modifier", and it looks like shit. Slow, and it evaluates to Maxscript. No, thanks.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by Hirazi Blue » 17 Apr 2015, 14:17

I think the main question is: what are you comparing it to?
I don't know 3ds Max (at all) but even this little tool might be just what the doctor ordered for the Max crowd.
ICE couldn't ever really compete with Houdini either IMHO,
but still we pretended it could and started using it enthusiastically with some stunning results...
:-?
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 17 Apr 2015, 14:49

Hirazi Blue wrote:I think the main question is: what are you comparing it to?
I don't know 3ds Max (at all) but even this little tool might be just what the doctor ordered for the Max crowd.
ICE couldn't ever really compete with Houdini either IMHO,
but still we pretended it could and started using it enthusiastically with some stunning results...
:-?
While I agree completely, one of the main advantages of ICE was Softimage. The software is/was more robust, stable and fast. So it handled things better.

And ICE looks more organized and faster as well ... plus allowing you to see what you are creating live. That's a major point. Theses examples we are seeing are from people who already script/code. I wonder what a person that never learned MaxScript is able to do it. While ICE was also complex for a non-scripted person, you could still risk some things and see the results.

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 17 Apr 2015, 15:03

Now that 3ds Max 2016 is available for download I'm pleased to announce a set of 30 sample MCG tools and 80 new compounds that you can download, use, and learn from!
http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/chris/ma ... s-max-2016

nodeway

Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by nodeway » 17 Apr 2015, 15:39

Hirazi Blue wrote:I think the main question is: what are you comparing it to?
Only to the best in the field. With the price you have to pay for 3dsmax and all the power of Autodesk I expected that they will show something along the lines of UE4 Blueprints. MCG is not even close to it.

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MauricioPC
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by MauricioPC » 17 Apr 2015, 23:40

New modifier from Clovis Gay:



And he's opinion about it:
There is a real potential, you can make your own tools, really promising. It's easy to code in maxscript for me so that's kinda the same. But this tool gives you access to more functions/speed. It could be faster, I think it'll come in next versions.
And the general consensus on the CGTalk thread about it is that while it's a great tool, it's very slow (in comparison with MaxScript).

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread. ... ge=1&pp=15

dalvirohan
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Re: 3ds Max 2016

Post by dalvirohan » 21 Apr 2015, 11:23

Hi,

Heard my name mentioned so thought I should reply.

I did try out MCG on a trial version of 3dsmax which I got from one of those links on the Area Forum, and it is very powerful. I was able to create a Max object from scratch in about 20 mins. Luckily coming from a background of ICE and Houdini it's not too difficult to understand the basics. Instead of Set Data and Get Data you have Input and Output.

I didn't write anything more on the forum because I figured I should wait till the proper release before making any kind of statements. Like, maybe there was realtime feedback and I just didn't know how to make it work.

Now that it has been released the big issue of realtime feedback still remains.

The thing is that I am not a programmer, neither am I particularly great at maths, so a lot of time I'll just randomly connect nodes to see what happens. It's like trying to learn by trail and error. Or if you get someone else's file then you can disconnect the ICE tree or the Vex node tree to see what is happening and since you get a realtime feedback in the viewport it's relatively simpler to figure out what is going on or where you've gone wrong.

In MCG that process is now 2-3 clicks away. You create something, compile/package it, install it and then you'll see something. And for every change you again have to build it and it will reinstall it for you. That makes the process slightly longer and disjointed.

But having said that, MCG is still one of the biggest things that has been added to 3dsmax since Particle Flow got added in version 6. So that's always a good thing.

I guess in later versions it will get faster.

regards
Rohan Dalvi

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