Autodesk Stingary

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Rez007
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Autodesk Stingary

Post by Rez007 » 05 Aug 2015, 18:55

I saw this the other day and it looks like Stingray will be releasing soon - on the 19th of August.

Stingray: http://stingrayengine.com/

Extra Info: http://www.engadget.com/2015/08/03/autodesk-stingray/

There are some features that I think are really nice. However, what I can find on the pricing seems a bit odd...From what the Engadget article states, Stingray will cost $30/per month to rent. Also, Maya LT will now come bundled with Stingray for the same price of $30/per month. Does anyone have any info on what it will be for users with full copies of Maya/Max (or the bundles with Softimage) that are on Maintenance Subscription? If it is the same $30/per month, then that would be strange.

In this link it kind of eludes that Stingray comes included with 3DSMax. Is this the same full engine of Stingray, or is it just careful wording? And if it is, will Maya have it also?
http://autodesklivedesign.com/

Stingray is something that I may be interested in, as some of the features are pretty neat, but clarity from Autodesk on the pricing for those with full copies on Maintenance would be helpful.

Thanks!

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Rork » 06 Aug 2015, 10:04

Yes, very interesting indeed. Especially now that I have been looking into Unreal more closely lately and loving the realtime stuff. Well, you still have to bake some things in the end... ;-)

As far as I can tell, Maya LT comes with Stingray for free. That is, it's included in the $30,=/month pricing.
No word on 3DSMax integration, or Maya from within the 'regular' Suites so far.
My guess is that it will be 'free' for all of the AD products, as they want to have converts.

The direct connection is nice, but probably just a 'auto re-import' of FBX models in the background. Something that can easily be built into Unreal or Unity imho.
Yes.... I'm cynical on all AD tech. ;-)

I definitely will have a go with it after it comes out and compare it to Unreal. Would love to hear peoples thoughts on this too when we have time to play with it.

Have to admit, it has been a long time since I found myself mildly interested in AD software..... ;-P

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Bellsey » 06 Aug 2015, 11:52

Autodesk have got themselves into a muddle with the pricing and many have been confused.

Basically, you pay the $30 a month for Stingray standalone, and you can use pretty much any 3D package you want. Export an FBX file and Stingray should take it.

Of course the advantage of using an Autodesk product, is the live link feature. It works like the 'Send To' feature in the Suites, where you can ping data to and from the various packages. The live link though provides realtime feedback. Anyone who may have used Motionbuilder in the Suites might recall the 'live' link between Maya and Mobu. Basically it's that. Worked quite well the last I played with it.

If you on active subs of MayaLT, then it looks like that after a certain date, you'll get access to Stingray for free. User might have to be aware though, that I think read somewhere that the licenses for MayaLT and Stingray become linked. Might not be an issue but something to perhaps be aware of.

The interesting thing here, is that Autodesk are charging for Stingray, but you can get Unity and Unreal for free. However, Autodesk don't seem to be charging a royalty on anything made with it, whereas Unity and Unreal do

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by MauricioPC » 06 Aug 2015, 13:18

I did point it out that this combo on a group I'm in, saying Stingray + Maya LT should be the cheapest combo for any indie game dev, but most of the replies were about prefering Maya LT + UE4 or Blender + UE4. I'm guessing AD will have a tough battle at their hands.

On a side note, they say that they support 3ds Max. But on the Stingray website there's not one mention or screenshot or video of this connection. There's no CAT or Biped support, but there's HumanIK (Maya and Mobu only). The only video that shows Max is on the design process with Revit.

Before I was ever a Softimage learner, I was a Max user. I've become wise (or not) and I'm learning Maya. L-)

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by angus_davidson » 06 Aug 2015, 13:27

Its worth noting on the EDU front that Stingray is going to be released via the ARC licences as well which means EDU institutions will be able to teach it without cost.
If Unity wants to remain the market leader in the EDU for game engine teaching they are going to have to radically rethink their not allowing Unity personal to be used on Lab computers. Unreal allows this, but its stil trying to build market share in the edu space. Autodesk dominates the EDU space so its a very big thing.
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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by BenR » 06 Aug 2015, 17:46

Bellsey wrote:
The interesting thing here, is that Autodesk are charging for Stingray, but you can get Unity and Unreal for free. However, Autodesk don't seem to be charging a royalty on anything made with it, whereas Unity and Unreal do
Actually Unity doesn't charge royalties. There is a free "Personal" version which is partly feature-limited and a "Pro" version which costs $1500 or $75/month (plus the same prices for each of the Pro versions of Unity iOS and Unity Android if you want those).

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Rez007 » 06 Aug 2015, 18:08

Bellsey wrote:Autodesk have got themselves into a muddle with the pricing and many have been confused.

Basically, you pay the $30 a month for Stingray standalone, and you can use pretty much any 3D package you want. Export an FBX file and Stingray should take it.

Of course the advantage of using an Autodesk product, is the live link feature. It works like the 'Send To' feature in the Suites, where you can ping data to and from the various packages. The live link though provides realtime feedback. Anyone who may have used Motionbuilder in the Suites might recall the 'live' link between Maya and Mobu. Basically it's that. Worked quite well the last I played with it.

If you on active subs of MayaLT, then it looks like that after a certain date, you'll get access to Stingray for free. User might have to be aware though, that I think read somewhere that the licenses for MayaLT and Stingray become linked. Might not be an issue but something to perhaps be aware of.

The interesting thing here, is that Autodesk are charging for Stingray, but you can get Unity and Unreal for free. However, Autodesk don't seem to be charging a royalty on anything made with it, whereas Unity and Unreal do
Thanks for the added info on the pricing. If someone is already on Maya LT or has been looking at it for some time, then this is a great deal. I think it would only be an extra $10/per month? Plus, you have no royalties. If you are renting Maya LT anyway, might as well get this too.

However, if Autodesk plans to charge all of their customers (the ones with Full licenses of Maya/Max/Softimage, etc. whom are on Maintenance) they are going to have a very tough time and might be dead in the water. I agree with Rork, people with full licenses, and who are on Maintenance, should be getting this out-the-door (or maybe a slight increase in yearly Maintenance would be okay), otherwise Autodesk is just banking on existing Maya LT people and possible newcomers.

Unity, actually does not charge any royalties. Their "Personal Edition" is free and clear, nothing owed. However, if you end up making over $100,000 in a year, then you have to buy the Pro license. Unreal Engine, is free (complete with Source Code) and you get the first $3,000 per quarter where your 5% royalty does not apply. In essence, that can be $12,000 per year if your payments line up. In addition, you only pay a royalty on games - I think everything else has a $0 cost and 0% royalty attached.

Personally, myself having full licenses (perpetual) I do not like having my game tied to a rental program. Especially, considering as I already have a full version of Maya. I do not need Maya LT, so there is absolutely no "bonus" to the current Stingray setup as others who are looking to get Maya LT would otherwise get. I am hoping Autodesk considers different possibilities as Rork mentioned, or similar, otherwise I do not see Stingray getting a large enough user base to succeed. I could be wrong though, but competing with Unity and Unreal (and a lot of indies/mobile developers - who Stingray is targeted to - use Blender) that is going to be tough.

Edit: After rereading all of the comments, including my own, it is mind-boggling in the times we are in, where full-featured, amazing game engines are virtually "free" or close to it. Actually, kind of sad when you think about it...

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Bellsey » 07 Aug 2015, 01:38

BenR wrote:
Bellsey wrote:
The interesting thing here, is that Autodesk are charging for Stingray, but you can get Unity and Unreal for free. However, Autodesk don't seem to be charging a royalty on anything made with it, whereas Unity and Unreal do
Actually Unity doesn't charge royalties. There is a free "Personal" version which is partly feature-limited and a "Pro" version which costs $1500 or $75/month (plus the same prices for each of the Pro versions of Unity iOS and Unity Android if you want those).
Yes, my mistake.

As for pricing, I just looked it up on the Stingray site. This isn't my bag anymore so I don't know what Autodesk has planned for pricing or how Stingray will be offered (if at all) to customers using Maya and Max. The MayaLT things makes sense, as that product is aimed directly at indie dev.

It will be interesting to see how things develop now. Stingray is good solid tech and having more competition is a good thing. Unreal and Unity (especially) have such a big community following, Autodesk will have to work hard to building something similar if Stingray is to succeed.

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by MauricioPC » 07 Aug 2015, 04:13

Bellsey wrote:This isn't my bag anymore so I don't know what Autodesk...
A bit off-topic, but I hope the Foundry snatch you up for help! You have been valuable to the Softimage users and I know you would help a lot the Modo ones.

They already have Shande (ex-Max PM). :D

/off-topic off!

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by nodeway » 07 Aug 2015, 04:56

Bellsey wrote: It will be interesting to see how things develop now. Stingray is good solid tech and having more competition is a good thing. Unreal and Unity (especially) have such a big community following, Autodesk will have to work hard to building something similar if Stingray is to succeed.
Autodesk is not a company that have building following communities in their guts. This company would need similar shake-off like Microsoft, fire CEO and bring someone new who will bring complete culture change in the whole company. Otherwise it will be like last Ballmer years, promising projects end up as failed attempts.

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Bellsey » 07 Aug 2015, 12:27

mantragora wrote:
Bellsey wrote: It will be interesting to see how things develop now. Stingray is good solid tech and having more competition is a good thing. Unreal and Unity (especially) have such a big community following, Autodesk will have to work hard to building something similar if Stingray is to succeed.
Autodesk is not a company that have building following communities in their guts. This company would need similar shake-off like Microsoft, fire CEO and bring someone new who will bring complete culture change in the whole company. Otherwise it will be like last Ballmer years, promising projects end up as failed attempts.
Could be right, but it's all within their grasp though.

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Rez007 » 19 Aug 2015, 19:47

So, Autodesk Stingray is out today.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/stingray/overview

I thought we would see an adjustment to their licensing, but from what I could find, it seems to remain the same. For those whom were on MayaLT, will get Stingray for free, but for anyone else who paid the big money for Maya or Max full versions (perpetual with Maintenance Subs), or even for those who are renting the full versions of Maya or Max will being paying the same as those who got it for free being on MayaLT. I think that is a bit strange. It is not too much money at all, very cheap actually since there are no royalties. Going to have to check it out.
Last edited by Rez007 on 20 Aug 2015, 06:12, edited 2 times in total.

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MauricioPC
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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by MauricioPC » 19 Aug 2015, 19:59

It doesn't make much sense, I agree. Why would I spend $360/year when I can have UE4 for free?

It's also strange that Maya LT + Stingray goes so cheap and Max and Maya need to spend more to get it. Autodesk doesn't make much sense indeed.

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by angus_davidson » 19 Aug 2015, 20:08

Seems to be windows only which seems rather short-sighted considering all the competition is pretty much all cross platform.
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Rez007
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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by Rez007 » 19 Aug 2015, 20:32

angus_davidson wrote:Seems to be windows only which seems rather short-sighted considering all the competition is pretty much all cross platform.
True, but I think that may be because mainly windows machines are used in making games, as PC titles are still very prevalent for sales. Mobile is different though. They also do not have Windows 10 listed as a supported platform, I assume it will work, but they only have Windows 7 and 8 listed under the "trial" link.

Edit: Kees, over on the Polycount forums, mentioned something about the way they have the engine developed that it could be expanded in the future.
Last edited by Rez007 on 19 Aug 2015, 21:11, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Autodesk Stingary

Post by MauricioPC » 19 Aug 2015, 20:48

I'm running Max 2016 fine under Windows 10. There's a little bug because of dual monitor setup, but was easy to fix it.

(I've putted my main monitor as the right screen monitor, which is smaller than my left monitor. I then put the 3ds Max on the left, bigger screen. But when I tried to orbit, my mouse would go directly to the right monitor and I would loose myself on the viewport. Just changed the main monitor to the left, but pushed the windows taskbar and other stuff to the right and no problem at all). :)

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