Houdini Indie Teaser

News concerning 3D DCC business
User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5107
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 12:15

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Hirazi Blue » 13 Sep 2014, 22:25

@McNistor - That would seem to be frightfully close to a personal attack. We try to avoid those... :-s
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

User avatar
McNistor
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 17:26

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by McNistor » 13 Sep 2014, 22:56

That might be true Hirazi, but then again, calumny is invalid when the made statements are true.
It's pretty hard to prove intention in general, but there is a critical mass one has to achieve in order to show their true colors.
As a user, not a forum member, I have to say that I have never found anything useful in Bellsay comments, only Autodesk promotion. He has never said anything critical (not even saying bad) about Autodesk and there's plenty to be said. And I understand why is this the case, but in this circumstance one can't escape the stigma that comes with an Autodesk employee signature.
I strongly believe that we need to stop making a distinctive difference between the employee and the man behind it - there's has to be some responsibility attached to the person since it's not working there at gunpoint.
The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
-Thucydides

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5107
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 12:15

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Hirazi Blue » 13 Sep 2014, 23:06

I don't want to discuss this at length, quite frankly, I just felt the need to do the Moderator-thing and I do believe you're way too harsh. And besides all that: not having anything negative to say about Autodesk is a valid POV, not one I can imagine, but valid nonetheless..
;)
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

User avatar
McNistor
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 17:26

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by McNistor » 13 Sep 2014, 23:29

Well, I understand your wish to end this and I'll comply, but not before making an addendum: someone having a different opinion should not make it "a discussion stopper" and I think "different" is not just that, it's either better or worse most of the time, therefore I think not having anything critical to say about Autodesk (because you don't see or acknowledge there's something) is not a valid opinion/position.

As a side note (come to think of it, this should have been the main point not a side note), can I see the list with your witty signature options? :D
The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
-Thucydides

luceric
Posts: 1251
Joined: 22 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by luceric » 14 Sep 2014, 01:10

It's important to be informed about HumanIK, and recent development HumanIK in Maya.. I don't know if it's the case today, but there has been a bit of a group-think in the softimage user base about it being nothing but some kind of weird rig for bipeds, and there are reasons for this, including a kind of schism between Filmbox and Softimage in the early days (we used to be partners), and also the original way it was marketed. But HIK is what everyone uses around Mocap and it's the most production-proven solution. 15 years of development and productions. MOTOR does the job, but it's something from years ago and the only reason we have it is because of the crowd tool we used to ship, Behaviour. It's never been developed since, just put into shape by Phil to be bundled in XSI 6 or 7, in a desperate race to add last minute features. None of this means that MOTOR is anything less than a good retargetting tool that does the job, but let's not pull each other's hair about it.

On topic of this thread, I've read on another forum that SideFX says that you cannot freelance at a company that makes for than 100K$ a year with Houdini Indie. This is also written on their web site. That sounds like it might be a big deal. Can you do freelance advertisement work for an ad agency that does more than 100k$? It doesn't sounds like you can. Has anyone asked?

User avatar
MauricioPC
Moderator
Posts: 1085
Joined: 16 Sep 2013, 13:39

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by MauricioPC » 14 Sep 2014, 02:06

luceric wrote:On topic of this thread, I've read on another forum that SideFX says that you cannot freelance at a company that makes for than 100K$ a year with Houdini Indie. This is also written on their web site. That sounds like it might be a big deal. Can you do freelance advertisement work for an ad agency that does more than 100k$? It doesn't sounds like you can. Has anyone asked?
If that's true, there's a major problem with this license scheme. As a freelancer, you need to do work for all types of clients and the need to deny work because of this restriction is quite strange.

I'll try to look for an answer for this as well, since it's a very important problem ... if it's true.

iamVFX
Posts: 697
Joined: 24 Sep 2010, 18:28

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by iamVFX » 14 Sep 2014, 11:21

luceric wrote:On topic of this thread, I've read on another forum that SideFX says that you cannot freelance at a company that makes for than 100K$ a year with Houdini Indie. This is also written on their web site. That sounds like it might be a big deal. Can you do freelance advertisement work for an ad agency that does more than 100k$? It doesn't sounds like you can. Has anyone asked?
Yea, I can see that from their EULA, section 6.2:
(ii) in the case of an Indie User that is using the Software to create content for a third party that will use such content in connection with a Commercial activity, such third party and its Affiliates and related individuals collectively have in the current calendar year, or had in the most recently completed calendar year, directly or indirectly, aggregate gross revenues from all sources less than US$100,000.
Exaggerated example: your work may cost millions of dollars of profits for a studio you're worked for. Your work should be independent, like personal projects or small startup studio.

luceric
Posts: 1251
Joined: 22 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by luceric » 14 Sep 2014, 12:39

MauricioPC wrote:if that's true, there's a major problem with this license scheme. As a freelancer, you need to do work for all types of clients and the need to deny work because of this restriction is quite strange.

I'll try to look for an answer for this as well, since it's a very important problem ... if it's true.
Actually, Robert from sidefx had confirmed it a month ago, it can't be used for freelancing at studios http://forums.odforce.net/topic/20681-h ... /?p=123395 I should have known to double check everything I read here..

It's "indie" as in, indie film or indie game, and nothing else

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 11:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 14 Sep 2014, 12:42

ok, I'm late to this party, but here goes...

McNistor, I'm sorry you think my posts are useless, though I can't say I agree with you. Also I'm not actually promoting anything, but the same as I've always done and that's highlighting facts and offering clarifications. Whether you want to believe any of that, well that's your prerogative and something I can't really control.
Could what I say be seen as promoting, then yes perhaps its could, but personally I think that's a kind thin argument. Take Luc-Erics recent post on HIK, is he 'promoting' HIK? Maybe, but what's he's doing is posting facts and information. And frankly I don't really care if people think its promoting, the main thing for me is that the facts get across for people to have a more informed view. The view might not be what you want to here, but there's the rub.

As for being critical about Autodesk, you're right, I'm not working there at gun point, and as I said recently on the list, I do have some company line to tow. However, I don't always agree with everything Autodesk does, and I have been on honest about that on occasion and been critical about some things. But, I have the benefit of being on the inside and though I might not like something, I do have some understanding as to why and how things are done. So I can offer a more balanced view, or try to anyway.

I also don't let my personal view conflict with what I believe would be right for a customer. I hate 3ds Max, and I've made no secret of that. now it might not be my cup of tea, but it's undeniable that there are plenty of people using Max and doing some great work with it. If I believed that it was the right solution for a customer, then I would absolutely suggest Max, just as I would with any other Autodesk product, if I believed it could work for them.

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 11:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 14 Sep 2014, 13:47

McNistor wrote:I'm just curious at this point - do you have any personal experience with these tools Bellsey or are you the ever present Autodesk seller guy talking (promoting) in this instance? Because if that's the case, I'd like to caution whoever (because there are a lot of guests here and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that) reads these posts, to take them with a salt filled soup spoon.
Hell, I'd do that even if you'd have personal experience with these.
Ok, one post out the way, now I will address this one directly.

Put simply, yes I do have personal experience with these tools. I've been working with mocap as far back 1997, when I worked at Psygnosis. Our main 3D software at the time? - Softimage 3D 3.5. Back then working with mocap wasn't easy, but when Kaydara came along with Filmbox and MOCAP, it was a revelation.

During my time at EA, I supervised and directed many mocap shoots for a variety of games including FIFA, Formula 1, Superbikes, and Catwoman (plus many more that never saw the light of day). We had alot of our own internal tools back then, and we did use XSI for somethings, Motionbuilder (nee Filmbox) was just so solid.
When I moved to film, we had our own retarget tools for projects like Kingdom of Heaven, but I used Mobu to salvage all the mocap done for Troy and Alexander, because the external vendor had made a hash of it. Mobu was just so reliable at that and its constraint system was a life saver when dealing with props like shields and swords, with characters then riding on horseback.

When I moved to onto Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, I pushed to go with Mobu for nearly everything because of the types of shot we had to to. There were lots of long dance sequences and due to the capture space available, we had to capture the dance moves in multiple takes and then blend them all together, and often retarget moves onto characters of different scale. And they all had to sync up to the songs that had already been recorded. Mobu was great at all that, and the playback was always so high.

I've also used MOTOR, it's not bad and very capable. The workflow and features are kinda similar to Mobu's, so for something it will probably get you there.
I just found Mobu to be just that bit more flexible for certain things, especially with dealing with actual raw mocap data. Motionbuilder has always been one my favourite packages to use.

I know this could be hard to believe, but there's a good number of people like myself and in the product teams, that have actually done the job and accumulated many years of production experience. And even now, we've sometimes worked on some big productions to consult/help/advise behind the scenes, it just didn't get shouted about.

User avatar
Mathaeus
Posts: 1778
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 21:11
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Mathaeus » 14 Sep 2014, 17:18

luceric wrote:
MauricioPC wrote:if that's true, there's a major problem with this license scheme. As a freelancer, you need to do work for all types of clients and the need to deny work because of this restriction is quite strange.

I'll try to look for an answer for this as well, since it's a very important problem ... if it's true.
Actually, Robert from sidefx had confirmed it a month ago, it can't be used for freelancing at studios http://forums.odforce.net/topic/20681-h ... /?p=123395 I should have known to double check everything I read here..

It's "indie" as in, indie film or indie game, and nothing else
From same thread at SideFX, post 28: "Renders are fine. The key is that you are not sharing scenes and assets with a larger studio."

User avatar
McNistor
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 17:26

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by McNistor » 14 Sep 2014, 20:07

Bellsey, I don't think I can address anything you've said in those two posts without being accused (and perhaps rightfully so) of an another ad hominem.
The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
-Thucydides

Bellsey
Posts: 688
Joined: 19 Apr 2010, 11:50
Location: London, UnitedKingdom
Contact:

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Bellsey » 15 Sep 2014, 17:03

McNistor wrote:Bellsey, I don't think I can address anything you've said in those two posts without being accused (and perhaps rightfully so) of an another ad hominem.
Then I would suggest taking things more private, instead of calling me out, for which then I have the right to reply.

User avatar
McNistor
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Aug 2009, 17:26

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by McNistor » 15 Sep 2014, 20:09

I have nothing to convince you of or to prove you anything, therefore a discussion in private would be a waste of time for me. The only way I would call you out would be in public so others can see and judge for themselves. "Problem" is I've lost interest even in doing that.
The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
-Thucydides

User avatar
MauricioPC
Moderator
Posts: 1085
Joined: 16 Sep 2013, 13:39

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by MauricioPC » 15 Sep 2014, 20:48

That's what I though originally, so it's all good in my view.
danw, on 07 Aug 2014 - 3:41 PM, said:
By that logic, isn't pretty much *any* commercial application going to break the licensing agreement? I may not make $100,000... my direct client may be an independant too... perhaps even their client might be a tiny ad agency just starting out, but somewhere down the line there's always going to be a commercial entity that brings in more than 100k. I mean, any company that can afford a TV advertising spot must have a turnover higher than that.

The 100K applies to your business (either individual or independent animation/game studio) AND any animation/game studio that may contract you. So Houdini Indie is not for freelancing situations where you are sharing scenes and assets with a larger studio. When you are doing finished work directly for a client that is OK.

User avatar
Hirazi Blue
Administrator
Posts: 5107
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 12:15

Re: Houdini Indie Teaser

Post by Hirazi Blue » 15 Sep 2014, 20:54

McNistor wrote:I have nothing to convince you of or to prove you anything, therefore a discussion in private would be a waste of time for me. The only way I would call you out would be in public so others can see and judge for themselves. "Problem" is I've lost interest even in doing that.
Could you please stop this already?
Direct personal attacks aren't allowed in this community and it has become painfully clear yours is nothing but a direct personal attack.
So please, walk away from this!
b-(
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests