offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

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Memag
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Memag » 31 Mar 2013, 00:52

Piotrek made some impressive modeling and object painting and manipulation tools for SI back in the days.
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csaez
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by csaez » 31 Mar 2013, 01:19

YKChou wrote:Compare Maya 2014 and SI 2014's new features, one can definitely see the difference in the dev direction.
Maya has received several powerful modeling tools that helps reto and sculpt, and an enhanced paint effect that creates instant simulation for the object, both seem like very solid and promising updates.
The new modeling tools in Maya 2014 comes from NEX (a popular plugin), they did the same years ago with polyboost in 3dsmax (they just renamed it as graphite modeling tools)... I really don't think you can see any development direction using that as an argument but who knows, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a coincidence :-\

Matic
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Matic » 31 Mar 2013, 03:56

@superpositive thank you for the kind words. :)

@bullit - your point is well taken, and has merit. Cinema4d, as well as tools like after effects and the trapcode plugins etc are very accessible and this is enabling for many artists. I just wanted to point out that artists should not fear seeming complexity, many fantastic artists are quite technically adept. Tim Borgman comes to mind, though he's quite humble about his technical skills. In a way, your argument applies to what I was saying about massive... It's a deep but very technical tool, where using ICE for crowds has proven to be more accessible to nonspecialists.

My history has been one of a certain degree of public doubt and open questioning of Autodesk. I think it's important to be heard given that these tools are ones which many of us rely on to keep roofs over our heads, and that this fact places a moral/ethical burden on the seller.

But it goes both ways. The development team has changed, and their first efforts were to quash bugs - a good way for them to dig into the SDK and become expert while also serving us well. I can be content with that. The real question for me becomes, will Autodesk stand behind this new team, and enable them to innovate regardless of how that may position Softimage?

Frankly, I think of the DCC apps under the Autodesk umbrella Soft has the greatest potential for the future. If Autodesk is willing to get behind the soft team 100% they have a chance to stay on top despite competition. 2015 is when it will become irrefutably clear whether AD will be eclipsed or not. Happily for Softimage users, the workflows of Softimage and the lessons of ICE have not been lost on aspiring competitors, meaning a year focusing on Softimage is well spent no matter what the future holds. And I see firsthand many studios adopting Softimage in greater roles, having been on this boat since the Softimage 3d/sgi days I've never seen so many opportunities for Softimage artists or for the software itself. If the AD decision makerS can see the same thing, then despite uncertainty in the industry the future is bright for this software.

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YKChou
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by YKChou » 31 Mar 2013, 03:59

csaez wrote:The new modeling tools in Maya 2014 comes from NEX (a popular plugin), they did the same years ago with polyboost in 3dsmax (they just renamed it as graphite modeling tools)... I really don't think you can see any development direction using that as an argument but who knows, maybe I'm wrong and it's just a coincidence :-\
Hey cszez, thanks for the notice. I wasn't aware that the new modeling system is implemented from a plugin and
was just talking about the development direction in a general sense.

I still don't think that makes much difference in terms of maya now has a better and more efficient modeling system, while softimage is heading in a ICE and particle oriented way.
From Softimage 7.5 to 2014, I haven't seen much changes in the modeling tools, some good bug fixes there and there though.
Just my opinion, I don't know. Maybe some people can correct me on this.

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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Bullit » 31 Mar 2013, 04:36

There were several changes in modelling tools in 2012 SAP.

http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/ind ... n_Modeling

See from 9:00 min


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sonictk
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by sonictk » 31 Mar 2013, 09:30

/peeks out from behind corner

I think the major problem XSI has is that most schools teach maya/max, and students these days generally take the path of least resistance in my experience. No one is willing to even try XSI, even as they whine and bitch about the modeling tools in Maya/Max.

Additionally, I feel XSI's modeling toolset, apart from having something similar to the retopology/sculpting features of the Diamant Tools plugin for Maya, is almost about perfect as it is. I would much rather XSI kept to the modo/silo philosophy of less tools, more options, rather than having a tool for every operation (Hi Maya) and ending up causing either a bloated UI ('icon hell' as I call it) or an overall slowdown in workflow. Modeling should be about knowing how to use the right tool for the job, not making up a tool for every single feature you want.

I feel XSI's greatest weaknesses (and the resulting disdain for its adoption) are generally its documentation, which is lacking, its viewport performance for animation, which is silly, and its in-built animation toolset, which is also lacking animator-friendly rigs. Thankfully GEAR fills that void nicely, however, these are major issues that I think prevent its adoption by more animators/modelers, even though it has Face Robot, which is arguably one of the best facial autoriggers I've ever used. If XSI had more rigs like Malcolm, Beeboy, Moom, etc. I'm sure it would be viewed as a viable alternative to Maya. (Basically once 11 Second Club lists XSI then we're good :D)

ChrB
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by ChrB » 31 Mar 2013, 11:04

Matic, wise and clever words from the 'real' world (whatever that means...).
Arnold for the masses!

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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by angus_davidson » 31 Mar 2013, 11:17

sonictk wrote:/peeks out from behind corner

I think the major problem XSI has is that most schools teach maya/max, and students these days generally take the path of least resistance in my experience. No one is willing to even try XSI, even as they whine and bitch about the modeling tools in Maya/Max.

Additionally, I feel XSI's modeling toolset, apart from having something similar to the retopology/sculpting features of the Diamant Tools plugin for Maya, is almost about perfect as it is. I would much rather XSI kept to the modo/silo philosophy of less tools, more options, rather than having a tool for every operation (Hi Maya) and ending up causing either a bloated UI ('icon hell' as I call it) or an overall slowdown in workflow. Modeling should be about knowing how to use the right tool for the job, not making up a tool for every single feature you want.

I feel XSI's greatest weaknesses (and the resulting disdain for its adoption) are generally its documentation, which is lacking, its viewport performance for animation, which is silly, and its in-built animation toolset, which is also lacking animator-friendly rigs. Thankfully GEAR fills that void nicely, however, these are major issues that I think prevent its adoption by more animators/modelers, even though it has Face Robot, which is arguably one of the best facial autoriggers I've ever used. If XSI had more rigs like Malcolm, Beeboy, Moom, etc. I'm sure it would be viewed as a viable alternative to Maya. (Basically once 11 Second Club lists XSI then we're good :D)
As a university that teaches SI we are in the minority. Since we switched from Maya to SI however the quality of the student work has improved dramatically. Its just more intuitive and repeatable, and far less cluttered then Maya for them to get to grips within our very compressed course. We do allow those who wish to use another 3D package to do so if they are proficient enough and are mainly there for the course credits.

We currently use only two plugins, The first is gear pretty much for the reasons exposed above. The other will be Arnold which we will be using from this year. SI out the box is pretty good for virtually all we need. We do use Mudbox and Composite on occasion, but not frequently.

The major issue we have is really one of getting folks access to tutorials. Having the option to download a local version of the help is a lifesaver for us. Our student internet is not good and massively oversubscribed so streaming services (eg digital tutors are not of much use) We have most of their DVDs though, but they are becoming somewhat dated and with all the new training we are missing out on a lot.

It would be really great if we could get something similar to what you used to get with the older versions of SI. The Instructors Learning CD's were awesome. If that could be updated that would be a huge win for most educational places using SI. Whether its shipping them on a USB key or allowing the download of the ISOs via subscription it would go a long way to addressing one of the major problems of teaching SI.
--
Technomancer at Digital Arts
Wits University

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bottleofram
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by bottleofram » 31 Mar 2013, 13:02

Matic wrote:I just wanted to point out that artists should not fear seeming complexity [...]
Shouldn't they? If that was true, they would be flocking to Houdini and Maya by now. Writing scripts and driving parameters by expressions just to have some cubes jump up and down is fun, after all... :-!

The argument would only work if we assume time suddenly flows infinitely slowly. The fact is, Cinema allows motion graphic designers to prototype quickly and make use of "happy accidents" type of workflow. The interface is intuitive enough, quick, visually appealing (which can be important to this target group) and userfriendly (with all the drag-and-drops, presets and ready-made effects you'll ever need). Instead of going for one complex scene setup, they build a layer upon layer of simple little setups that add to desired complexity when necessary.

For every Polynoid, there are hundreds of backyard garage type of establishments that picked up copilot and gorilla last week and are already producing more work faster (even if not nearly as refined) than the one that put years behind ICE.


As a disclaimer: i'm not a motion graphics designer, this is just my impression so take it for what its worth

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ojo3D
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by ojo3D » 31 Mar 2013, 15:11

bottleofram wrote:Shouldn't they? If that was true, they would be flocking to Houdini and Maya by now. Writing scripts and driving parameters by expressions just to have some cubes jump up and down is fun, after all... :-!

The argument would only work if we assume time suddenly flows infinitely slowly. The fact is, Cinema allows motion graphic designers to prototype quickly and make use of "happy accidents" type of workflow. The interface is intuitive enough, quick, visually appealing (which can be important to this target group) and userfriendly (with all the drag-and-drops, presets and ready-made effects you'll ever need). Instead of going for one complex scene setup, they build a layer upon layer of simple little setups that add to desired complexity when necessary.

For every Polynoid, there are hundreds of backyard garage type of establishments that picked up copilot and gorilla last week and are already producing more work faster (even if not nearly as refined) than the one that put years behind ICE.


As a disclaimer: i'm not a motion graphics designer, this is just my impression so take it for what its worth
I have to agree with you on this. I've been playing with SI and Cinema 4D and though I think SI modelling tools are better and viewport manipulation is more refined, I do think MoGraph is very easy to use. You rapidly create cool effects that needs more tweaking on ICE.

And C4D render is quite fast and easy and cool too. Something MR is not. In any case, I'll keep playing with booth since booth of then have nice features for motion graphics.


I have yet to try both as animation toolsets, but that should take a while. Need to grasp the power of model/texture/light/render first. In any case, I have seen good ideas here. And the guy who posted the topic about we creating (we the community) more cool videos for SI is a seller. If you Youtube search videos, you even find some cool motion graphics in LightWave, some rather appealing things.

Obviously, SI is way more powerful for that, but is rather difficult to find this videos.



Cheers and happy easter for all. ~o)

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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Kzin » 31 Mar 2013, 17:34

ojo3D wrote: And C4D render is quite fast and easy and cool too.
how many more complex scenes did you render with c4d render? massiv amount of textures, dispmaps and that stuff? i am pretty sure you did not. thats the main problem of the c4d renderer and also c4d itself. my main complain are the shaders itself (besides the textures memory problem). if you have to render alot of metals, perhaps anisotrop one, then you have a big problem.
would be great if you could share some examples you did with the renderer, so we can see how complex the shots are.

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ojo3D
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by ojo3D » 31 Mar 2013, 18:40

Kzin wrote:
ojo3D wrote: And C4D render is quite fast and easy and cool too.
how many more complex scenes did you render with c4d render? massiv amount of textures, dispmaps and that stuff? i am pretty sure you did not. thats the main problem of the c4d renderer and also c4d itself. my main complain are the shaders itself (besides the textures memory problem). if you have to render alot of metals, perhaps anisotrop one, then you have a big problem.
would be great if you could share some examples you did with the renderer, so we can see how complex the shots are.

No complex shots at all. My opinion is based on the newbie I am. And in being a newbie learning, I do find it easier. I don't doubt you of the problems you are saying. Since the conversation went to talk about easiness of softwares, as a newbie, I gave my input that C4D does seen easier to work in the beginning.

Since I'm mainly learning for motion graphics work, it's nice to get fast results. But I'm too learning SI as I do like the software, but I guess it will take more time to be good at ICE to render some nice results.

Booth my students licenses will run until 2015. When we get there, I'll tell you what I think. :-bd


The main point I was talking about was that it's easier to find some nice renders/videos of C4D on the web then SI. Or tutorials for that matter. I guess that can go a long way in making the software more desired to be learned.

I for sure would like something like http://greyscalegorilla.com/blog/ for SI. I'm doing some nice tutorials there, for free, and getting some nice results for somebody who never touched 3D before. In SI I have Digital Tutors, but is paid and the last releases are more on Maya, Max or even C4D. So I'm watching some old tutorials that I've downloaded from RediVivus. But I would like something like GreyscaleGorilla to help improve my learning with some nice video-tuts for free.

That's it. Cheers.

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bottleofram
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by bottleofram » 01 Apr 2013, 00:17

ojo3D wrote:But I would like something like GreyscaleGorilla to help improve my learning with some nice video-tuts for free.
Those tutorials are technically free, but that level of quality and consistency was only made possible by a constant rise of the amateur and amateur-going-pro markets for those particular applications. Both him and the video copilot guy have monetized their work through the plugins and content products they sell on their sites. Tutorials are the bait.

Such conditions will not be available to anyone thinking of providing free training for ICE. People have done it though, and it should definitely be admired. I would recommend Paul Smith's series on vimeo if you haven't seen it yet and there are others but a bit harder to dig up. If you decide to move on to some of the commercial tutorials to gain deeper understanding, cmivfx might be better option than digital tutors - Gustavo E. Boehs and Thiago Costa in particular have authored training sessions which should give you more than enough base to continue building upon on your own. Also, currently Bradley Gabe is talking on The List about the possibility of hosting a paid webinar. Among the listed subjects is "Understanding ICE (fundamentals)".

I understand this is not what you had in mind. This is the alternative.

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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by Bullit » 01 Apr 2013, 00:37

There are a lot of tutorials by Autodesk and the Softimage How-to in Youtube.

IslandDreamer
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by IslandDreamer » 01 Apr 2013, 01:18

Adam Sale's tutorials on Vimeo are free and very well done. https://vimeo.com/thejoncrow

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ojo3D
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Re: offical features for softimage 2014 & we have a NEW logo

Post by ojo3D » 01 Apr 2013, 03:29

Hey guys, thanks for all the tips. Lots of bookmarked stuff in here.

Actually, I don't even mind if I had to pay for some tutorials, but was thinking that something more practical like GreyscaleGorilla would only help marketing the software.

I just did one where I modeled and rendered a coffee pot. Uuuuuuuuuuuu. But the end result is great and that really drives me to wanting to learn more. The day I become more fluent in Softimage will be the day I'll start doing this tutorials myself, ending always with a beautiful render. That way I hope to bring more players to our game. =]

If anybody here have tried the trial of modo, the first tutorial is to model a cup. Now, that's stupid, but the accomplishment you get by producing an image from start to end is what literally drives you to wanting to learn more. The first tutorial of Maya should be something like this. lol

In any case, I think this is the best forum ever. B-)

Thanks for all your help. And let's study.

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