Luxology & the Foundry merge

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Letterbox
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Letterbox » 26 Sep 2012, 01:47

No insult to Autodesk, but I think they called it a merger not an acq. because Autodesk call it an acq. and that to many people has left a bitter taste( recently naiad, etc). Semantics I'd agree, but given the power of perception and of social media, I'd say calling it a merger was a wise decision on their part.

I'm surprised at the merger, given that the Foundry with it tools clearly is a heavyweight with larger and high end demands placed on it's tools. Clearly Modo does not fit that bill (yet). But given what's out there and the various stages of development and probable cost, maybe it was the best bet to be had, since they want in on the DCC market.

I'd agree with the comments of Luxology delivering good customer care, I'd add that another plus is Modo clearly has the added value of being seen as actively and continuously developed.

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Nizar
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Nizar » 26 Sep 2012, 09:53

Pooby wrote:Fuxology?
:))
Mathaeus wrote:I bought Modo 601, honestly, because is affordable. License isn't tied to machine, so, as long as I have machine able to drive compatible OS, I should be able to use it. So I have some commercial software in case something goes wrong with regular job. Renderer is nice one, but... this shader tree, come on.... Actually everything in this soft, beside renderer, IMHO is a pathetic mass. Right now I don't even have it installed. I'm more and more Blender fan.

With a lot of work, I think there is a chance for Modo to be a decent competitor to Cinema 4d, that's all..
Anyway it would be interesting to see what will happen.
Agree, I cannot understood how many people said modo is best modeller out there. I used hard for modelling for about two months customizing and using pipetool for streamline tools and creating some new, resulting a tendinitis to my right hand... IMHO modo is a hybrid between precision modelling for archiviz and the fast modelling tools present in softimage, this mixture don't work so well IMHO. Also rigging is a bit tedious. Sharder tree is not so bad, what is the problem with it? The only reason I open it is for rendering and, sometime, for retopology, but I really hate the tendency modo has: messing meshes... really, don't know another software who need a "meshcleanup" tool.

About blender, wieport is very weak, too weak... but I like cycles and the no frills approach blender has. I hope they can developing fast cycles side CPU, the ram limit is one of the big issue. I support blender (buying their film and give him a month supporting), and hope they will grow up shortly and with strong features.

SreckoM
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by SreckoM » 26 Sep 2012, 10:16

Oh come one it is not Modo that is messing meshes but users.

I model mostly in Modo for several years, and it is one of the best modelers out there for sure. As a matter a fact it has really great workflow. Just falloff feature kick ass. Only thing I dislike is lack of history, coming from Maya and XSI that was main drawback from me ... On the other hand at this point it can not be replacement for XSI or Maya, but maybe this can be changed now when Foundry get them. Who knows what will happen .... I stopped thinking about future after all things happened to SI for last several years, it is healthier :D
- H -

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Nizar
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Nizar » 26 Sep 2012, 11:16

SreckoM wrote:Oh come one it is not Modo that is messing meshes but users.

I model mostly in Modo for several years, and it is one of the best modelers out there for sure. As a matter a fact it has really great workflow. Just falloff feature kick ass. Only thing I dislike is lack of history, coming from Maya and XSI that was main drawback from me ... On the other hand at this point it can not be replacement for XSI or Maya, but maybe this can be changed now when Foundry get them. Who knows what will happen .... I stopped thinking about future after all things happened to SI for last several years, it is healthier :D
Cannot agree... modo messing your meshes. Mostly depending by the work you doing, I image for archiviz, when you handle mostly simple shape, this is not an issue, but when you deal with complex meshes, modo making problems, for these reason they add in 601 an old Seneca script(improved a bit). This script work well and resolve many issue (doubled vertex, polygons with two side etc.), but you need to separate the shape in different containers, or meshcleanup will merge vertex from different meshes. The "messing mesh process", arrive without any notices, I can repeat the some action has ported the messy mesh in a precedent session, and don't have issue with my mesh (so is a random issue) but sometime mesh become messy...
On modo forum is present a discussion (or two) about, and seems it is a Lightwave legacy...

Also, cannot see this great superiority in modo modelling tools... I can be wrong, but I see it convenient only when you deal with precision modelling (whatever it mean... I suppose in archiviz job), but working with snapping is a pain (did you take a look at F11 tab?) , for my need many tools are simple useless, the action centrer is over complicated and, even customized, modo too many clicks workflow is still present.

Obviously is only and strictly IMHO

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Memag
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OT

Post by Memag » 26 Sep 2012, 12:27

Carlyle Group?

Aren't they those famous war profiteers group W/ Saudis, Bush, Iraq, CIA and even Osama's family crew?
My god, the business is good indeed.

Letterbox
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Re: OT

Post by Letterbox » 26 Sep 2012, 12:43

Memag wrote:Carlyle Group?

Aren't they those famous war profiteers group W/ Saudis, Bush, Iraq, CIA and even Osama's family crew?
My god, the business is good indeed.
Yes Megmag, thats them, and there have been quite a few other "incidents" since the days you mentioned.

But lets not derail it with those people

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Memag
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Re: OT

Post by Memag » 26 Sep 2012, 12:49

Letterbox wrote:
Memag wrote:Carlyle Group?

Aren't they those famous war profiteers group W/ Saudis, Bush, Iraq, CIA and even Osama's family crew?
My god, the business is good indeed.

Yes Megmag, thats them, and there have been quite a few other "incidents" since the days you mentioned.
Wonderful.
Last edited by Memag on 26 Sep 2012, 12:54, edited 1 time in total.

Letterbox
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Letterbox » 26 Sep 2012, 12:51

back on topic...

Greg
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Greg » 26 Sep 2012, 20:15

ok...I'm a long time lurker around here but I want to chime in. I've been using modo since 101 and the idea that it 'messes up your meshes' is ridiculous. Because it's so easy to copy and paste points and polys people sometimes paste them twice or do bevels with 0 inset...things like that can create problems and it's an easy 1 button fix. So yes..it's possible to mess up your mesh but I routinely deal with giant meshes and I don't think I've run that script more than once or twice in the last few years. modo (in my rather informed opinion since I've been doing this for nearly 20 years) is way ahead of programs like xsi and maya in modeling I can't even believe that's up for discussion. modo is used at the highest levels (Pixar, ILM, Valve etc.) for modeling as well as product design with companies like Honda, Mercedes, BMW Designworks...it's used at Apple for image design. If you like modeling in Soft, more power to you....but c'mon let's be serious.

Softimage's strengths are animation, rigging and simulation - it's a nice complement to modo and there's a ton of Softimage+modo boutiques and individuals. I can understand the frustration with Audodesk by some Softimage users (I'm one of them) but Autodesk has done some good things with Maya (which I've also used since the 90's) and a lot of good things with Mudbox, so cut them some slack. I understand that the anxiety is justified...if it comes down to it (when it comes down do it, after another bad quarter or two) Softimage will probably get the axe...too much overlap with Maya and Max.

The Foundry's merger with Luxology will hopefully help everybody - if you're in this for the long haul (and I am) it's pretty easy to see a really powerful version of modo 5 years from now...it's also pretty easy to see no version of Softimage 5 years from now. So you will have to go someplace and modo will be an option. Will it be Softimage? No...it will be modo and some things will be better and some things will be worse, but it will certainly be coming from a company that cares. This is the best forum I've seen for Soft....where's Autodesks' forum? Why aren't we all there? Luxology's forums are fantastic. Go to Luxology's gallery and every single day new artwork is put up...and it's good stuff, real projects that people are making money off of. Does Softimage even have a gallery?

I'm not sure I'm on board with Pooby vis-a-vis the visual programming. Maybe modo will branch into a version that's more VFX friendly...and if so then nodal shading and something like ICE is a must. However...modo's bread and butter is imagery for advertising and marketing...and interfacing with CAD apps. VFX is a pretty small and niche industry with a very demanding clientele...but anybody with modo and the Adobe apps (and some talent) can make a ton of money in the advertising and marketing industry (again...go to the Lux. galleries). People in this industry will very happily live out the rest of their lives without visually programming anything - and they're perfectly happy with the shadertree too. Personally I think shading is going to evolve into a much simpler process with fewer parameters...look at Maxwell and Arion. Very primitive shading UI with a few parameters and a few panels..but unbelievable imagery. Shading Nodes for VFX? Absolutely!...but for photorealism in Marketing and Advertising you will see a much simpler shading model and method relying on physical accuracy.

-Greg

luceric
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by luceric » 26 Sep 2012, 20:53

Greg wrote:No...it will be modo and some things will be better and some things will be worse, but it will certainly be coming from a company that cares. This is the best forum I've seen for Soft....where's Autodesks' forum? Why aren't we all there? Luxology's forums are fantastic. Go to Luxology's gallery and every single day new artwork is put up...and it's good stuff, real projects that people are making money off of. Does Softimage even have a gallery?
sure softimage does, but users refuse to use it and hang here instead. http://area.autodesk.com/products/gallery/softimage
Greg wrote:People in this industry will very happily live out the rest of their lives without visually programming anything - and they're perfectly happy with the shadertree too.
totally agree with the rest.. there is a good discussion on the luxology acquision on the fxguide podcast, with people from ILM, weta, etc. http://www.fxguide.com/fxpodcasts/fxpod ... oundtable/

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Nizar
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Nizar » 26 Sep 2012, 21:01

I don't want start a VS topic, we derail OT...
ok...I'm a long time lurker around here but I want to chime in. I've been using modo since 101 and the idea that it 'messes up your meshes' is ridiculous. Because it's so easy to copy and paste points and polys people sometimes paste them twice or do bevels with 0 inset
If you want we can continue in private the discussion. I have my experience in modo from 401, not buying it trying it extensively and finally, with 601 release, brought it with the crossgrade offer from luxology. So, I know what I said, but repeat, continue this discussion in private (I fear Hirazi rage :)
Softimage's strengths are animation, rigging and simulation - it's a nice complement to modo
Softimage maya companion, softimage modo complement... :-t Sorry for all said so, but softimage is a generalist, great, piece of software, if you don't doing archiviz (but softimage can handle any archiviz work you need) softimage is great stand alone and actually I have not found a task where its modelling tools cannot help me.
The Foundry's merger with Luxology will hopefully help everybody - if you're in this for the long haul (and I am) it's pretty easy to see a really powerful version of modo 5 years from now...it's also pretty easy to see no version of Softimage 5 years from now. So you will have to go someplace and modo will be an option. Will it be Softimage? No...it will be modo and some things will be better and some things will be worse, but it will certainly be coming from a company that cares. This is the best forum I've seen for Soft....where's Autodesks' forum? Why aren't we all there? Luxology's forums are fantastic. Go to Luxology's gallery and every single day new artwork is put up...and it's good stuff, real projects that people are making money off of. Does Softimage even have a gallery?


Is not a merge, is an acquisition, and softimage users well know what mean acquisition. Softimage has a future, unlike what is said around. Why do you said so? Do you know secret AD plans? Or simple read some fanboy comment around the net? Autodesk is not the best place for softimage, but is a safe harbor. Modo employed about 5 years for a half baked (too clicks) CA, how many years for making something like ICE and match softimage in VFX job?

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bottleofram
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by bottleofram » 26 Sep 2012, 21:09

Hi Greg, welcome to our little forums. :)

I agree with most of what you said. Particularly on modo's development focus and the unlikelihood of its change. We draw conclusions based on Foundries current position, but theres no reason to believe they didn't go into this deal in order to expand their own business rather than pull Luxology into a different market.
Greg wrote:I understand that the anxiety is justified...if it comes down to it (when it comes down do it, after another bad quarter or two) Softimage will probably get the axe...too much overlap with Maya and Max.
I bet they would like that, but it seems like our Asian fellas are hard to let go of their favorite particle plugin. Those folks manage to keep XP alive still, so AD might not be that quick on the trigger. ;)

iamVFX
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by iamVFX » 26 Sep 2012, 21:38

Greg wrote:People in this industry will very happily live out the rest of their lives without visually programming anything
:(|)

I finally found an appropriate use of this smile

Greg
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Greg » 26 Sep 2012, 22:12

I really like this forum, even though I've only just posted I've been reading it for a long time. I lusted after Softimage for a long time and finally got it in an upgrade deal when they bundled it with Maya. Unfortunately I've hardly used it yet - but I do think it's the best overall package out there and something I know the Luxology people have a lot of respect for.

In terms of the Foundry deal...a merger vs. an aquisition is really just semantics. However, the fact that they are choosing to market it as a merger is signifigant and something Autodesk doesn't do. Luxology is keeping it's identity and it's engineers, it's simply not the same thing as the Softimage acquisition by AD (which seemed more of a defensive maneuver than anything else).

My speculation about SI's future is just that - speculation. But I've been working in Silicon Valley for 15 years and have seen this kind of thing before over and over with my own clients in the tech industry (PeopleSoft, Sun, WebEx...to just name a few.....not to mention my wife is an M&A attorney here in SV at one of the largest firms on the planet). I know how this works and it's not 'some fanboy comment on the net'..ok? I have high hopes for SI that it will live and continue to be developed, but don't put all your eggs in that basket because AD will not hesitate to layoff the devs or kill the product in a heartbeat if their BOD says so (anybody want to bet how many BOD members don't even know what SI is?)

Regarding the '5 years for a half baked (too clicks) CA' I have no idea what you're talking about. CA was just a recent development (I've been on the beta team for well over 5 years and the deformation system wasn't developed until the 601 cycle..period) and I don't see any more clicks than when I do something in Maya. Of course it's not as refined as SI or Maya..and it won't be in 701 either, but that's not really the point of this thread - is it? Don't be so defensive, my point is that the Foundry deal will almost certainly offer SI users a more mature product choice at some point...or at the very least a nice renderer.

-G
Is not a merge, is an acquisition, and softimage users well know what mean acquisition. Softimage has a future, unlike what is said around. Why do you said so? Do you know secret AD plans? Or simple read some fanboy comment around the net? Autodesk is not the best place for softimage, but is a safe harbor. Modo employed about 5 years for a half baked (too clicks) CA, how many years for making something like ICE and match softimage in VFX job?

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Daniel Brassard » 26 Sep 2012, 22:23

Interesting time indeed for the industry.

I'll keep an eye on that "merger". The R&D of both companies combined should output some interesting stuff in the near future.

Although the Foundry and Luxology have different markets, the philosophy of listening to customers and innovation is complementary, with some heavy weights leading the charge.

I'll wait and see where they are going but if I had a dollar to invest, i would be willing to invest on that one.
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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Nizar
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Re: Luxology & the Foundry merge

Post by Nizar » 26 Sep 2012, 22:31

Greg wrote:I really like this forum, even though I've only just posted I've been reading it for a long time. I lusted after Softimage for a long time and finally got it in an upgrade deal when they bundled it with Maya. Unfortunately I've hardly used it yet - but I do think it's the best overall package out there and something I know the Luxology people have a lot of respect for it.
So AD marketing work.
Greg wrote:In terms of the Foundry deal...a merger vs. an aquisition is really just semantics. However, the fact that they are choosing to market it as a merger is signifigant and something Autodesk doesn't do. Luxology is keeping it's identity and it's engineers, it's simply not the same thing as the Softimage acquisition by AD (which seemed more of a defensive maneuver than anything else).
Acquisition mean luxology will follow the Foundry marketing. Not in 701, probably, but I'm pretty sure in 801 they will start to cage. Luxology likely to be forgotten in a few years. But we will see. IMHO, Lux was in some trouble, or understood their marketing will be phagocytosed by blender, only Luxology team know the truth.
Greg wrote:My speculation about SI's future is just that - speculation. But I've been working in Silicon Valley for 15 years and have seen this kind of thing before over and over with my own clients in the tech industry (PeopleSoft, Sun, WebEx...to just name a few.....not to mention my wife is an M&A attorney here in SV at one of the largest firms on the planet). I know how this works and it's not 'some fanboy comment on the net'..ok? I have high hopes for SI that it will live and continue to be developed, but don't put all your eggs in that basket because AD will not hesitate to layoffs the devs or kill the product in a heartbeat if their BOD says so.
Sure, Foundry can doing the some with Modo. In Softimage case, softimage has a little userbase, bigger than Houdini. There is no real reason for AD to kill softimage. If softimage is profitable, softimage will live. I don't see the signs of a dismiss. Where is? Softimage has its new development team, great company product great plugin (Vray, Arnold) and little one doing also a great work (Exocortex and Mootzoid). New release is confirmed and softimage continue to kick ass. The develop don't follow exactly what userbase ask, but softimage is the only AD software capable to doing impressive job every release (crowd fx, lagoa, ICE).
Greg wrote:Regarding the '5 years for a half baked (too clicks) CA' I have no idea what you're talking about. CA was just a recent development (I've been on the beta team for well over 5 years) and I don't see any more clicks than when I do something in Maya. Of course it's not as refined as SI or Maya..and it won't be in 701 either, but that's not really the point of this thread - is it? Don't be so defensive, my point is that the Foundry deal will almost certainly offer SI users a more mature product choice at some point...or at the very least a nice renderer.
I remember CA was mentioned first time into 301/401 release, not 5 years, but four? Every release they added some feature in CA, but only into 601 was presented a full functional CA set (qith some resonable absence in terms of tools). You said modo will evolve into a VFX tools (or I'm wrong?), I think no, they cannot in few years, and take like example how many years they employed for present a a CA tool set.
I'm no defensive, only I'm a bit tired about all speculation on softimage. Softimage was under AD since 2008, if they want kill it, they did it some years ago without lost money into its development.

I don't know what will do Foundry, simple to me seems they are too different company, whit different market and different philosophy. I don't want another software with a license like AD, no thanks, so 601 can be the last modo for (all depend by 701 and 801 release). Again, who know?

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