Cinema 4D r.13 announced

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Mathaeus
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Mathaeus » 03 Aug 2011, 13:02

Hirazi Blue wrote:
Mathaeus wrote:now I should stop because this is SI forum :)
Within reason, don't stop, as this is obviously is a SI forum, but this also is a Cinema 4D thread, so any information how Cinema 4D holds up to Softimage could be interesting (it would certainly interest me).
;)
I think it's hard to say how does it 'hold' with XSI. At least in animation/deformation field, Cinema seems to behave as a 'follower', making compilation of already proven features from another apps. So, in current compilation, from XSI, there is ShrinkWrap deformer (exactly that, a few less options related to direction, but with user defined fallof), some kind of GATOR, some kind of non-destructive morphing. Mentioned 'editable motion path' isn't from XSI, as it doesn't exist in XSI. Max has some simple variance for years, latest Maya has a boosted one.

Now, *if* C4D R13 will have an usable muscle system... then Maya, Max and Cinema will have out-of-the-box musle system, but XSI.... will stay with believing in great results of great 'Interactive Cultural Revolution (of programming fan-boys)' . For those who don't know, that's a real name :). And Maya has usable bi-directional constrains, which belongs to science-fiction for SI and Cinema 4d and Max.

Also if a new renderer in Cinema is still a product of Cebas team, I wouldn't be surprised of something slightly better than 5-more licence thing for SI. But now available for every C4d user for affordable price.

Let's go back to animation/deformation area, imho it's significant that all rip-offs from XSI belongs to XSI 6, because... this is the last XSI which have something usable to rip-off. Just that.
The renderer "turtle" used by this scene, is not currently available. The "turtle" renderer will be used instead.

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Maximus
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Maximus » 03 Aug 2011, 13:14

milanvasek wrote: I guess Vray for Softimage will make you happy :)
I personally use Arnold at work and 3delight at home, so I don't care about Mental Ray anymore.
I'm in Vray beta for Softimage currently and i'm using it quite a bit to test it out, cant comment on the current status tho :)
3Delight is not a viable solution, everytime i've tried it its deadly slow, i need a raytracer, it also win the prize for the render with the less resource and training materials, i had a bad time with 3delight the few times i've used it.
Arnold, i have no idea how it could be of any use to me, everytime i saw it it was rendering bilions of stuff wich is not my field.
Chris_TC wrote: Why restart? You seem to know your way around Cinema already, so a switch would be easy I'd think.

If I may draw an analogy. There is this grumpy man who doesn't like his retirement home. He has the ability to pick another one and go there, but he prefers to stay and rant about how much nicer the place next door is.
Because i didnt really learn c4d, i saw it from friends and sometimes played with demo, i dont have the time and mood to restart learning a 3d software.
And i like Softimage else i wouldnt buy it, my rant usually is because i would like to see more things i could benefit from, i'm not sinking the software, i've spent too much time on mental ray (from wich comes all the frustration since i could have spent time on another engine and be more productive than this dinosaur).
I keep studyin ICE everyday but thats mostly for passion and general CG knowledge..cant hide that i'd love to see many tools still lacking in Soft, some viewport love and other stuff that gets repeated lately :)

Dont misunderstand me, i love Softimage and i'm more than happy with it, i just hope it'll get better, like everyone else.

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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Pooby » 03 Aug 2011, 14:25

Let's go back to animation/deformation area, imho it's significant that all rip-offs from XSI belongs to XSI 6, because... this is the last XSI which have something usable to rip-off. Just that.
Unless I have completely misunderstood what you are saying, I would argue that since Ice arrived, softimage's deformation abilities have stratospherically leapt ahead of the pack. And, of course, no other package can rip that off unless they have something like ice.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Mathaeus » 03 Aug 2011, 16:16

Pooby wrote:
Let's go back to animation/deformation area, imho it's significant that all rip-offs from XSI belongs to XSI 6, because... this is the last XSI which have something usable to rip-off. Just that.
Unless I have completely misunderstood what you are saying, I would argue that since Ice arrived, softimage's deformation abilities have stratospherically leapt ahead of the pack. And, of course, no other package can rip that off unless they have something like ice.
Yeah, all that ICE muscle systems all around :) Btw I made one, but if I used it, I won't be on vacation right now - just because I'm only one who knows how to use it....

To some extent of always live operators, with *some* performance, yes it can do a lot. Compared to specialized 'standard' operators, like XSI envelope or standard kinematics, performance isn't that great, everyone knows that.

It's old story about 'public transport'. Great to have it, but sometimes you'll need to walk *a lot* just to use it. And people still likes to by cars. And.. if public transport became only solution, not everyone is happy....
The renderer "turtle" used by this scene, is not currently available. The "turtle" renderer will be used instead.

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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by pdesopo » 05 Aug 2011, 19:32

Chris_TC wrote:
pdesopo wrote:Blender, for the view port speed
Is it that fast? Have you done comparisons? Maybe you could add a comparison using this scene, I am quite curious:
Lightwave http://vimeo.com/25913111
Softimage http://vimeo.com/25913180
Haven't still got the time to make that test.
The feeling is that SI viewport probably is even faster, that would be a reason more to switch to SI.

One thing at first sounded really strange to me. As C4D user I always thought that other 3D users, like Maya and SI, wouldn't never had a reason to complain about their 3D app. Actually, thinking again this sounds stupid. Of course there's always room for improvement and the software houses couldn't improve their product if the users wouldn't ask for new features. Just still sound strange as I always thought that C4D was a step back compared to SI as every time I did talk with colleagues or chatted on forums, it seemed obvious that SI was part of a higher level 3D family.

Said that, it's nice to see that SI users are asking for easy tools to leave the designer free of technical trouble. Just is not an easy task. Finding the right balance between easy of use and a hi-level product is not simple. ICE seems to be a good example. It's easy enough to let even not TD users to use it, but powerful enough to let advanced users to get the most of it.

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TwinSnakes007
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by TwinSnakes007 » 05 Aug 2011, 22:13

C4D and Modo are nice. But, no one comes close to ICE. With ICE, you can build the exact feature you want, and it automatically scales because ICE is multithreaded.

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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by gustavoeb » 06 Aug 2011, 01:26

C4D is a nice piece of software and has it's niche market. I had to work with it sometimes already and I felt really confortable in it. That said, some limitations in it feel very akward, like some deformations and mesh subdivision depend on objects hierarchy. That sounds ok whenever you first start using it, but it is quite limiting and many times you have to workaround this. Not ideal when riggin more complex stuff.

This looks like a very good release!

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Hirazi Blue » 06 Aug 2011, 13:52

As I only "scanned" this thread, it could be that it has already been mentioned, but I really liked the concept they had going with the separate modules a few years back. During that time I was almost tempted to switch and buy myself only a few modules I thought I needed. Now they have reinstated a classic pricing module with 4 versions, I must say I'm way less tempted.
But I used the ancient C4D 6 XL (as a coverdisc edition with 3DWorld) for a couple of months, prior to switching to Softimage, and somehow Cinema4D might not be "perfect", but I always found it highly "likeable"...
(as if that's a helpful qualification in this context 8-| ).

The "competitive sidegrade", however, Maxon seems to have always offered was/is a nice touch also...
;)
...

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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by 3DTutorial » 06 Aug 2011, 15:06

One thing that should not be overlooked regarding C4D is that it has a very, very, powerful connection with Adobe After Effects which is pretty awesome. Myself, I like C4D a lot and I think that Maxon does a great job. Mind you, I will not be switching from Softimage to C4D anytime soon, but I do think it's a pretty fine app IMHO. This release looks pretty sweet.

Cheers,

J
Certified Softimage Instructor & Old Timer
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Mathaeus
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Mathaeus » 06 Aug 2011, 17:56

I think I'll take one 'middle' r13 when become available. Where I am, on-the-road price of 'middle' c4d is still smaller than yearly AD subscription for Max or SI. And I become a small c4d addict in last week. The rest is a forum life, everyone have some story, somewhere this is suggested procedure and 'artist-friendly', somewhere this is
'dear friend, what you need is a warp drive, which is nothing more than application of e=mc2 formula, plus jut a bit of Dilithium' :)
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by wireframex » 06 Aug 2011, 20:56

Chris_TC wrote:
pdesopo wrote:Blender, for the view port speed
Is it that fast? Have you done comparisons? Maybe you could add a comparison using this scene, I am quite curious:
Lightwave http://vimeo.com/25913111
Softimage http://vimeo.com/25913180

hehe funny to find this test I made for a friend ;)
"without mastery, power is nothing" - Softimage Addict User

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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by 3DTutorial » 06 Aug 2011, 21:06

wireframex wrote:
Chris_TC wrote:
pdesopo wrote:Blender, for the view port speed
Is it that fast? Have you done comparisons? Maybe you could add a comparison using this scene, I am quite curious:
Lightwave http://vimeo.com/25913111
Softimage http://vimeo.com/25913180

hehe funny to find this test I made for a friend ;)

Just a comment.... tests such as these, that is to say tests using uniform duplicated/instanced geometry are not particularly good to use because they are just that, uniform. To really make the more accurate, you should use non-uniform geometry, something like really heavy 3d scan data, stuff with open borders, and random edges and topology etc.... that makes for far more accurate real-world test results and makes a big difference.

Cheers,

J
Certified Softimage Instructor & Old Timer
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Mathaeus
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Re: Cinema 4D r.13 announced

Post by Mathaeus » 09 Aug 2011, 11:07

Few videos about r13. New renderer looks like a some kind of modern path-tracer. Motion blur and DOF, progressive rendering, physically based (whatever that means), so on.
The renderer "turtle" used by this scene, is not currently available. The "turtle" renderer will be used instead.

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