Inverted Envelope?

Discussions about migration to other software
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rray
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Inverted Envelope?

Post by rray » 19 Oct 2014, 03:09

Hmm just curious, is there any other package that supports inverted envelope deformation? (calculating modeling tweaks done on a posed model backwards through the envelope, on to the undeformed bind mesh)
I find this one of Softimage's best features, and one thing I wouldn't want to miss.
-r
softimage resources section updated Feb 7 2019

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Mathaeus
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Re: Inverted Envelope?

Post by Mathaeus » 19 Oct 2014, 13:56

There are addons around, in Blender, that's called "corrective shape keys", it is integrated addon, but just not enabled by default. In Maya - Modo world, I think this is usually called 'pose space deformers', or 'pose space sculpting' in Modo. Some of addons supports a sort of automatic linking to bone rotations, but, have no idea what exactly they are doing in case of 3d rotations.
Just personally, got something to work in Modo 601, but wasn't be able to figure out what I have to do to get anything close to predictable playback speed in Modo, in few weeks of trying. Same with 701.
Blender itself is, let's say enough good when it comes to SRT linking (has SI way of automatic reading of local SRT, relative to something else driven by global SRT), so my ambition stopped on 'intermediate' bones in Blender.
Best chances are, to get something usable in Maya, imho. New Houdini version seems to be close (according to deadline of Houdini splash contest ) - it would be interesting to see, are they planning to add something streamlined .

forton
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Re: Inverted Envelope?

Post by forton » 19 Oct 2014, 23:37

One of the nicest implementations I saw was in messiah, just paint on your posed object until it's good, keyframe it and done, one the coolest things about it is that you can put it back to the rest-pose with the deformation you have done and save a morphtarget and voila, you have a corrective shape you can control with an expression.

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FXDude
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Re: Inverted Envelope?

Post by FXDude » 20 Oct 2014, 00:37

Best chances are, to get something usable in Maya, imho.
Everything is possible (and everything is tricky) in Maya because of it's wide openness.

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FXDude
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Re: Inverted Envelope?

Post by FXDude » 24 Oct 2014, 13:51

To write something more meaningful,

Here is a corrective shape workflow in Maya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B4gD9Cllsg



OOTB, you need to tweak a linked copy of your model, and see the effects on your posed character.
(which is a pain in the ass)

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But there's at least one (free) plugin that can help,
with scripts that automate a few (of the many) steps,
and that inversely applies modifs you do on your posed mesh onto the neutral pose, which you then need to set a shape key, or expression on rotation with ranges.

7 Part video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwU6aAi3 ... Yu&index=1

First 2 covering traditional methods, #3 covering plugin, #4 setting expressions,
last 3 covering installation -> 8-|

Also Mentioning that your skinning needs to be completely NAILED before using.

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And there's also deluxe (commercial) plugins such as this:
http://www.braverabbit.de/shapes/


which makes things a bit closer to Softimage.

but you know..
Image

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And here's one clip from (friggin) 12 years ago, showing XSI(4.0) workflow
(using software from the (friggin) future)
Hosted by my friend and former collegue sitting next to me Michel Isner :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqThnQL6Plg


(sigh)

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FXDude
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Re: Inverted Envelope?

Post by FXDude » 24 Oct 2014, 21:27

Sorry, Zombie(-fied) software from the (friggin) future :p

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rray
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Re: Inverted Envelope?

Post by rray » 04 Nov 2014, 15:45

Thanks for your great replies! The decade old Softimage implementation still seems the only one that doesn't have one or the other "disqualifying" limitation (like having to re-do the whole setup)

I'm not even using that function for shapes, although that's obviously one of the main uses for it.
It helps so much with final modeling tweaks, when you've maxed out what weight tweaking can do, then you can still use it to tweak and find a good compromise between different poses of the model.

The ideal implementation would be that the transform tools would recognize and invert any active envelope on the model.... and maybe do lattices .. and DQ weights..:ymdaydream:
softimage resources section updated Feb 7 2019