The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Discussions about migration to other software
angus_davidson
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by angus_davidson » 10 Mar 2014, 04:57

luceric wrote:I have a digital tutor through my employer. I love it, I love the all-you-can-eat model. I've watched it on the computer, or the ipad, on the treadmill.. I've looked at maya training, UDK, Unity, etc.. That said, it's 45$/month, I would probably be too cheap to pay that on my own.
The only problem I find with DT is that there are too many courses! It's hard to find "the good one" in the lot, the search function doesn't seem to return what you would want. (For example, a search on Maya Fluid returned crap, but there is a gem or two in there) I recommend reading the weekly or monthly newsletter to see the courses they are are trying to push. Anyway, if you decide to use DT, for whatever product you want to learn more about, I would say think in terms of getting a six month or one year subscription.
I know it's boring but I will be doing page by page manual, no thing helped me as much in softimage.
can't do that on a treadmill, but IMHO this guy is completely right.
Working with the old Inside softimage book was more like weight training though ;)
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Hellomojo
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hellomojo » 10 Mar 2014, 09:05

Realistically I think the poll that popped up is inaccurate. I think it's driven by anger at losing softimage. In real terms, maya will be number one and Max number two. So although it's unpalletable, I feel like moving and discussing the options, economics and bang for Buck..

angus_davidson
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by angus_davidson » 10 Mar 2014, 09:18

Hellomojo wrote:Realistically I think the poll that popped up is inaccurate. I think it's driven by anger at losing softimage. In real terms, maya will be number one and Max number two. So although it's unpalatable, I feel like moving and discussing the options, economics and bang for Buck..
Do I think the conversion figures will be the same as the poll, no but what it has done is forced people to look at alternatives besides Maya and 3dsmax. Well actually only really Maya, 3dsmax was never in the running for serious animation work. That poll was one of the reasons that AD started taking the anger of their users seriously. I am sure they were hoping for a nice smooth transition. Now you have people properly evaluating Modo / Houdini pipelines and discovering there actually is a valid non AD option with companies that really engage with their users and actually innovate. Thats pretty terrifying to the M & E's bottom line.

A lot now depends on what places like TheFoundry , SideFX and even Newtek do. They have been handed the ball and its very much up top them to either fumble or run into the endzone.
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Hirazi Blue
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hirazi Blue » 10 Mar 2014, 10:56

Well, I think a poll like the one in the "What if?" thread always will be a snapshot of the feelings at the time and the fact that that poll ended on the 5th of October says a lot also, as a lot has changed since then. Had Autodesk for instance asked an additional fee to switch to Maya I wouldn't even considered my switch. And the lack of an offer from Maxon threw me off a little as well. The main shortcoming of that poll IMHO was that it made a strict distinction between making switch to other software and to "continue using Softimage for a few years to come", while the reality for most users will be that they will make a switch, while still continuing with Softimage as long as that's feasible. I know I will.

About DT: In the past DT has always been a convenient way of introducing yourself to some new feature, but not much more. The last thing I bought from them before they went "subscription only" was an introduction to ICE training, which wasn't in depth to say the least, but at the time did the trick of helping me along with this new ICE stuff. As I, however, would only very occasionally be interested in DT stuff, the subscription model never worked for me.
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

Hellomojo
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hellomojo » 10 Mar 2014, 11:02

angus_davidson wrote:
Hellomojo wrote:Realistically I think the poll that popped up is inaccurate. I think it's driven by anger at losing softimage. In real terms, maya will be number one and Max number two. So although it's unpalatable, I feel like moving and discussing the options, economics and bang for Buck..
Do I think the conversion figures will be the same as the poll, no but what it has done is forced people to look at alternatives besides Maya and 3dsmax. Well actually only really Maya, 3dsmax was never in the running for serious animation work. That poll was one of the reasons that AD started taking the anger of their users seriously. I am sure they were hoping for a nice smooth transition. Now you have people properly evaluating Modo / Houdini pipelines and discovering there actually is a valid non AD option with companies that really engage with their users and actually innovate. Thats pretty terrifying to the M & E's bottom line.

A lot now depends on what places like TheFoundry , SideFX and even Newtek do. They have been handed the ball and its very much up top them to either fumble or run into the endzone.
Hi there, would you mind expanding on that? (Maya being ahead of Max) I am still trying to figure out what way to go...
I am aware of the superior animating in Maya, but I am a generalist working in TV, so it's flexibility for me, so for instance having a comprehensive text solution could be more important as I need it every second day, whereas I get asked to rig and animate a character about once every 2 years (For which I got really into it in Soft).

BTW I used a digital tutors DVD years ago for rigging in Soft, amazing - doing it from scratch so to understand everything fundamentally, so I can only assume their stuff for the other packages is the same.

luceric
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by luceric » 10 Mar 2014, 17:33

Hellomojo wrote:Hi there, would you mind expanding on that? (Maya being ahead of Max) I am still trying to figure out what way to go...
I am aware of the superior animating in Maya, but I am a generalist working in TV, so it's flexibility for me, so for instance having a comprehensive text solution could be more important as I need it every second day, whereas I get asked to rig and animate a character about once every 2 years (For which I got really into it in Soft)
Sounds like you're a candidate for Max. Which probably does have all the animation tools you might need -- not that you couldn't use it in conjunction with XSI if it didn't.

Hellomojo
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hellomojo » 10 Mar 2014, 18:14

True, I suppose I can pop over and back to Soft. - I did make a mistake at the start of my career, took advice and started using Softimage 3d (The first version) as opposed to Max, keep in mind it was for one day turn around jobs in TV etc. Knew it was a mistake after a few months, but it was ok.
I knew from v1.5 of XSI, that I was on the right path then.

Was just looking at videos there on State Sets (Passes for Max) - looks like they will do the job, little bit clunky but certainly works.

forton
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by forton » 13 Mar 2014, 09:41

Hi,

What are the main maya forums?
Is there any maya equivalent of si-community?

Nox
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Nox » 13 Mar 2014, 10:46

No.

forton
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by forton » 13 Mar 2014, 10:52

Sounds promising!

luceric
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by luceric » 13 Mar 2014, 12:32

forton wrote:Hi,

What are the main maya forums?
Is there any maya equivalent of si-community?
it's cgtalk

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hirazi Blue » 13 Mar 2014, 12:42

But do they annoy Autodesk as much as we apparently do? :D

PS I got word from Maurice Patel on the Mailing List that the migration/transition to Maya offer apparently allows us to drop to the "basic" subscription Maya has to offer from the ""gold" subscription that we were forced to take for Softimage...
Check with your local reseller, obviously!
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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MauricioPC
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by MauricioPC » 13 Mar 2014, 13:45

Hey Hirazi,
You say you're a hobbyist, so what kind of work you actually do (being a hobbyist)? Is it modeling characters? Animating?

I ask you this because I've think maybe 3ds Max may be a good option. There's lots of scripts (available for free) and other stuff. In terms of training (aside animation), you'll find a lot more of 3ds Max for free and the DT ones are great. Joshua Kinner (DT instructor for 3ds Max) is really really good and I've learned a lot from him.

You have to try your options ... Maya is great, but for a generalist or hobbyist it may not be the perfect solution. I'm between Cinema 4D and 3ds Max as a general software to use and I'm still studying Maya with FX in mind (yeah, I was kind of let down by the list when Raffaele from Animal Logic said I should be studying Houdini), but I have a great Maya FX training that it's too good to throw it out.

Thankfully Allan McKay (VFX Supervisor) said that 3ds Max is still very strong with FX in a lot of major studios, so I guess I'm okay for now (Max + Maya).

As for animation ... Maya is superior, but I've seen some great work with Max. For example, if you take a look at the work by NKI Studio (France), they do AMAZING work with Max and they have some solid animation with it. Maybe for the things you like to play around, Max is a good bet.

RedShift is coming to Max, V-Ray is more solid in Max ... I think the plugin scene in general is very powerful. And you have ATK (Animators Toolkit) from Joker Martini at $25 and it's a very very good 'mograph like' plugin. I have and it's great.


Anyway ... I think for people who want to work in studios/professional cg environments, maybe the Maya route is the best bet. But I like Max and I like it's modifier stack (it's not the operator stack, but it's better than Maya's history IMO).

Cheers.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hirazi Blue » 13 Mar 2014, 14:12

Well Cinema 4D would actually have been my first choice, but the complete lack of any kind of migration offer for Softimage users just makes it way too expensive for me. The choice between Max and Maya is admittedly harder as both could be maintained at the same (or even lower) subscription fees I am paying now. My decision was largely a spur of the moment kind of thing, as I really, desperately needed to quickly clear my head when the end of Softimage was announced. My choice to pick Maya was largely inspired by the many comments I’ve read over the years that it is the second-best tool (from “our” perspective) for character animation, something I have been dabbling in for years (enthusiastically, albeit completely unsuccessfully, mind). Furthermore one gets the impression that Maya, especially with the demise of Softimage, has cemented its undisputed role as the one true “Media & Entertainment” software for years to come, while the future direction Max will take – and I’m NOT saying I think it will be axed – seems a bit more uncertain in this respect.
Oh, did I mention I am a masochist? :D
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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MauricioPC
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by MauricioPC » 13 Mar 2014, 14:18

Hirazi Blue wrote:Well Cinema 4D would actually have been my first choice, but the complete lack of any kind of migration offer for Softimage users just makes it way too expensive for me. The choice between Max and Maya is admittedly harder as both could be maintained at the same (or even lower) subscription fees I am paying now. My decision was largely a spur of the moment kind of thing, as I really, desperately needed to quickly clear my head when the end of Softimage was announced. My choice to pick Maya was largely inspired by the many comments I’ve read over the years that it is the second-best tool (from “our” perspective) for character animation, something I have been dabbling in for years (enthusiastically, albeit completely unsuccessfully, mind). Furthermore one gets the impression that Maya, especially with the demise of Softimage, has cemented its undisputed role as the one true “Media & Entertainment” software for years to come, while the future direction Max will take – and I’m NOT saying I think it will be axed – seems a bit more uncertain in this respect.
Oh, did I mention I am a masochist? :D
Hehe. Well, if it's animation you like, than Maya is the best option. Maybe you can have a look at Keith Lango animation training. It's in Maya (but older versions) and he's selling all his VTS for $ 99. He decided to take a break from teaching. From some free stuff I saw from him, he looks like a good teacher.

https://keithlango.com/animationclinic/cart/

Hellomojo
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Re: The road to Maya (yes, Maya)?

Post by Hellomojo » 13 Mar 2014, 14:36

Ive been looking at Max and Maya, no clearer on making a decision. If I was working on a film with a team or working with a team I think Maya. I am a single operator-generalist, took years with Softimage, to sort of tame it to do exactly what I need - which is fantastic. I can see the limits in Max but can see myself mastering it much quicker and writing a few maxscripts to sort out any rough edges.

It's a dilemma - get my job done quicker, more efficiently and with less study, or work harder studying Maya's in's and out's and think about the future and future employment. I can tell from playing around now with trials, Maya is a beast like Softimage, Max is a 'house trained' beast that will get my slippers for me when I come home! Ha ha!
Kunundrum central.

Moderator edit: I've just opened a thread to specifically address the difficult choice between Max and Maya.
You can find it here: Transition: Max versus Maya - HB

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