User Guide Softimage 2014 online

New plugins, tools etc.
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sonictk
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by sonictk » 25 Mar 2013, 15:03

I actually kind of wish they brought back the foundation/essentials/advanced pricing model...not sure how popular that viewpoint is but I feel with modo costing a fraction of what XSI does it might be what it needs for people to have a look at it more seriously. Either that or some sort of price adjustment at the very least...

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McNistor
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by McNistor » 25 Mar 2013, 15:10

EricTRocks wrote:As far as I know, we're not going to sell Species to AD. What we ARE going to do is continue to develop new features and take advantage of improvements and bug fixes in the newer releases. So, while you stick to 2013 or older and may also wish to use some of those plug-ins, you may be stuck using older versions of the plug-ins as well as missing out on new features.

While people see the bug fix list as something that people shouldn't look at and dev time shouldn't be put into those of us building you nice 3rd party plug-ins see them as amazingly helpful. I'd prefer a release like this covering so many bug fixes rather than one with 5 new great tools with only a few bug fixes. We all know new features do come with bugs themselves.

Paying for subscription is a no brainer for me. I get support and access to the new releases throughout the year. Which may include new features or just bug fixes. I have no expectations that I'm going to get a huge new feature with each version. I do expect changes and improvements but just because I have a subscription that doesn't mean I get to expect anything other than access to the new version and support. I suspect we've just gotten used to that but maybe we shouldn't have.

Is it a good business decision to let subscription lapse just to have to pick it up again down there road? What is the cost if you let it lapse for a year then pick it up again?
Your approach to subs appears to be a "make the best out of a bad situation" thing, which in these circumstances might be a good thing to do.
However, people are upset for the lack of features that should have accompanied those bug fixes (about which nobody complains). People pay to have new features foremost not to have the possibility to acquire new plugins.
I understand why you and other plugin developers cheer at bug fixes. Nobody boos them.
The ideal situation would be that in which people would get new features via subs AND 3rd party plugins, not just bug fixes that enables them to have access to plugs for which they have to dish out other chunks of $.

p.s. You might want to update the Exocortex link in your sig.
Last edited by McNistor on 25 Mar 2013, 15:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by EricTRocks » 25 Mar 2013, 15:14

sonictk wrote:I actually kind of wish they brought back the foundation/essentials/advanced pricing model...not sure how popular that viewpoint is but I feel with modo costing a fraction of what XSI does it might be what it needs for people to have a look at it more seriously. Either that or some sort of price adjustment at the very least...
From what I understand, they got rid of that since they can't extract ICE from the core for the foundation / essentials.
Eric Thivierge
Lead Kraken Developer, Fabric Engine
http://fabric-engine.github.io/Kraken

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sonictk
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by sonictk » 25 Mar 2013, 15:21

EricTRocks wrote:
sonictk wrote:I actually kind of wish they brought back the foundation/essentials/advanced pricing model...not sure how popular that viewpoint is but I feel with modo costing a fraction of what XSI does it might be what it needs for people to have a look at it more seriously. Either that or some sort of price adjustment at the very least...
From what I understand, they got rid of that since they can't extract ICE from the core for the foundation / essentials.
That's a bummer...I feel like XSI actually has the strongest polymodelling toolset out of every DCC app I've ever used, and I actually started with max and liked it a lot before switching over so I hope I'm not too biased. Every time I demonstrate my workflow in XSI to other students (who have never even heard of it X_X) they're always amazed...but they still stick to maya because admittedly it's what they're used to and probably more likely to get them a job anyway...I think if there was a 'modeling only' version of XSI that was priced lower it would get a lot more traction esp. in the game industry for environment artists, it's just so much more easier to work with than Maya sans plugins.

But what do I know, I'm just a student :P

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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by EricTRocks » 25 Mar 2013, 15:31

McNistor wrote:Your approach to subs appears to be a "make the best out of a bad situation" thing
It's not since I don't see it as a bad situation. A bad situation would be for no development what so ever being done and shuttering the doors of the product.
People pay to have new features foremost...
How so? When you have no clue on what new features are coming, how can you pay for it?? People pay to have the license to use the software, support, and access to new versions that come out within that period.
I understand why you and other plugin developers...
Really it's just the plugin developers? Not people at the studios using the software day in and day out running into the same annoying bugs project after project? They benefit more than just plug-in devs, they benefit the every day user too.
not just bug fixes that enables them to have access to plugs for which they have to dish out other chunks of $.
What I mentioned was one example of why keeping up on your subscription would help. There are bug fixes that may not help developers but do help the every day user as well.
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McNistor
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by McNistor » 25 Mar 2013, 15:46

EricTRocks wrote:
McNistor wrote:Your approach to subs appears to be a "make the best out of a bad situation" thing
It's not since I don't see it as a bad situation. A bad situation would be for no development what so ever being done and shuttering the doors of the product.
For you it might not be, but I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to how does your approach might seem to others.
EricTRocks wrote:
McNistor wrote:People pay to have new features foremost...
How so? When you have no clue on what new features are coming, how can you pay for it?? People pay to have the license to use the software, support, and access to new versions that come out within that period.
No clue, like the long lists of requested features and updates of the existing tools?
EricTRocks wrote:
McNistor wrote:I understand why you and other plugin developers...
Really it's just the plugin developers? Not people at the studios using the software day in and day out running into the same annoying bugs project after project? They benefit more than just plug-in devs, they benefit the every day user too.
I was referring to the SDK, API and other low level stuff that don't interfere with "normal" day-to-day working bug fixes, my bad for not specifying that. In this case, plugin devs benefit more.
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by EricTRocks » 25 Mar 2013, 16:01

McNistor wrote:I was referring to the SDK, API and other low level stuff that don't interfere with "normal" day-to-day working bug fixes, my bad for not specifying that. In this case, plugin devs benefit more.
Not trying to be nit-picky but are you including RnD / TD employees into the "plugin devs"?
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McNistor
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by McNistor » 25 Mar 2013, 16:13

EricTRocks wrote:
McNistor wrote:I was referring to the SDK, API and other low level stuff that don't interfere with "normal" day-to-day working bug fixes, my bad for not specifying that. In this case, plugin devs benefit more.
Not trying to be nit-picky but are you including RnD / TD employees into the "plugin devs"?
No, because they're fewer and only found in large studios. Fair or not, my concern is not for big studios, but for the small ones and freelancers.

edit: or should I have said "yes"? Doesn't matter, you know what I meant. :)
The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by SreckoM » 25 Mar 2013, 17:07

sonictk wrote:
EricTRocks wrote:
sonictk wrote:I actually kind of wish they brought back the foundation/essentials/advanced pricing model...not sure how popular that viewpoint is but I feel with modo costing a fraction of what XSI does it might be what it needs for people to have a look at it more seriously. Either that or some sort of price adjustment at the very least...
From what I understand, they got rid of that since they can't extract ICE from the core for the foundation / essentials.
That's a bummer...I feel like XSI actually has the strongest polymodelling toolset out of every DCC app I've ever used, and I actually started with max and liked it a lot before switching over so I hope I'm not too biased. Every time I demonstrate my workflow in XSI to other students (who have never even heard of it X_X) they're always amazed...but they still stick to maya because admittedly it's what they're used to and probably more likely to get them a job anyway...I think if there was a 'modeling only' version of XSI that was priced lower it would get a lot more traction esp. in the game industry for environment artists, it's just so much more easier to work with than Maya sans plugins.

But what do I know, I'm just a student :P

I am curios, what is exactly makes XSI polymodeling toolset superior to Maya one?
Last edited by SreckoM on 25 Mar 2013, 17:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris_TC
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by Chris_TC » 25 Mar 2013, 17:17

SreckoM wrote:I am curios, what is exactly what makes XSI polymodeling toolset superior to Maya one?
It's been four years since I used Maya for modeling, and I only really remember being flabbergasted at how much more convoluted the entire workflow is. Do they have a move point tool yet? That alone is a killer feature hard to live without.

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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by gfxman » 25 Mar 2013, 17:53

Why the page is already down?

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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 25 Mar 2013, 19:38

Chris_TC wrote:
SreckoM wrote:I am curios, what is exactly what makes XSI polymodeling toolset superior to Maya one?
It's been four years since I used Maya for modeling, and I only really remember being flabbergasted at how much more convoluted the entire workflow is. Do they have a move point tool yet? That alone is a killer feature hard to live without.
There is a "tweak mode", a mere shadow of the move point tool considering the fact, that you need more time to select something than to move it in maya.... :))
I'm now part of an endangered species...

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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by gustavoeb » 25 Mar 2013, 20:21

apparently SIs user guide is a "big hit" at CGTalk...
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread. ... ost7551092
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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by sonictk » 25 Mar 2013, 20:33

I am curios, what is exactly makes XSI polymodeling toolset superior to Maya one?
I could write a book about how I dislike Maya's toolset, but really I'll boil it down to:

- Tweak tool as mentioned
- Actual poly draw tool that works 100% of the time
- Slide edge/vertex easier (maya by default cannot even do this afaik, ctrl-shift-mmb is not the answer)
- Easier access to proportional modeling tools and with more options
- Operator stack VS Node history in Maya works better
- UI in XSI does not suffer from 'icon hell' as I like to call it in Maya, I can find any function I want easily
- selection tools in XSI are superior in function and raycast selection functions exactly like it should, not based off highlighting center of component
- marking menus as they are do not work well for effiiciency, having dedicated hotkeys is much better even though this means increasing the learning curve slightly
- customizable xray mode
- viewport focus on component isn't spazzed out by default
- able to render region in viewport to check polygon topology result quickly and easily
- less crashing when going ultra-fast-click-shit-the-deadline-is-in-2-hours mode
- able to select components on multiple objects easily and without fuss
- manipulators with plane handles (Without having to ctrl-click for the same function in Maya)

It should be mentioned that I use Diamant tools in Maya to help me out in modeling, and its retopology function is pretty cool...which XSI kind of has, I know, either via snapping or ICE, and there are definitely niggles I have with XSI's toolset (like how symmetry does not respect topology changes, the best way is still via manual instancing/cloning of objects) but overall I am especially confident in saying that in XSI everything seems designed as much as possible to aid you in your task...in Maya and Max it seems more like the other way round most of the time.

Of course, you can make great topology in any of them (all you really need is a plane, extrude and SRT tools) but I guess I'm emphasizing more about efficiency here. :D

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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by Lord Futzi Voldemort » 25 Mar 2013, 22:05

Now, who´s still for a petition?
I'm now part of an endangered species...

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Re: User Guide Softimage 2014 online

Post by Fer » 25 Mar 2013, 22:26

Lord Futzi Voldemort wrote:Now, who´s still for a petition?
About what ?

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