Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

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CafeNight
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Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by CafeNight » 01 Jan 2017, 08:28

Hello all
Want learn Rigging and Animation and wanted ask its still worth learn Softimage for Rigging and Animation or I should change software for something else like Maya or Modo, Blender, Houdini
I nothing know about rigging and animation so any help would be nice
thanks

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gaboraa
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by gaboraa » 01 Jan 2017, 13:33

Principles are all the same. If you learn rigging and animation, you can use your skills in every application out there. Softimage, Maya, Modo and all the others are just tools for you to be creative. I advice you to look at Maya since Softimage is dead and finding jobs become harder.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Mathaeus » 01 Jan 2017, 17:47

Beside Softimage, I think there are three apps where animation and rigging is let's say alive, enough of people are using these apps everyday for exactly that purpose, you'll be able to find answers from real experience. Finally, there's good chance to pass-through with little or no rigging knowledge, using some proven tool created by community. That's Maya, Max and Blender. Anything else probably doesn't worth to learn when it comes to direct animation and rigging, unless everything you want it is to be a supporter of certain app.
Softimage is EOL, significant investment of time in SI, that's somehow like building a house on top of floating iceberg. While iceberg is still huge, strong and deadly dangerous to anyone who's trying to compete, it will become only smaller and smaller in next years.

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Draise
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Draise » 01 Jan 2017, 18:24

I recommend learning animation in an Autodesk app, or try with Blender too if you can't afford the prior. Max, Maya and SI have animation layers - but I like the simplicity of the UI in Maya and SI for animation. I like the dynamic operators and ICE ability to easily rig in SI. Maya rigging is probably standard. I know people who used to rig in Max but prefer Blender. Animation in Blender is lacking animation layers and layered/offset NLA mixer - but does have different types of keys for extreme keys, tweens, etc. Certainly capable.

The animation tools in Maya are no better than Softimages, except you may have Opensubdiv and better playback on some rigs in Maya.

But just so you know, rigging in Maya is less... flexible when it comes to editing rigs after you've built them compared to Softimage.

But down and out, the technique and tools in SI, the rigging tools available.. are standard and still relevant to the tech today in any other software.. so learning in Softimage will do as well as learning anywhere else..

CafeNight
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by CafeNight » 05 Jan 2017, 07:07

already trying both Maya and Softimage, thanks guys from Digital-Tutors
and still cant understand why AD kill Softimage becouse of SDK?
what i see rigging, modelling just amazing without over9000clicks you can provide strong and clean rig and models

thanks I will stay in softimage as long as its will possible

Bellsey
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Bellsey » 05 Jan 2017, 14:27

Personally, if I was going to start learning rigging and animation now, I would go straight to Maya.

Soft is great, but it's dead now and will not be coming back, and if you're looking long term at work and prospects, then learning Softimage isn't really going to help you.

It's a harsh truth, but it is the truth.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Mathaeus » 05 Jan 2017, 15:47

Bellsey wrote:Personally, if I was going to start learning rigging and animation now, I would go straight to Maya.
Fully agree. Especially these days, when even Maya LT is able to run rigs of 2K nodes and subdivided meshes at 80 FPS (personal experience), has a motion re-targeting system for pros, time editor/animation mixer, three methods of quaternion interpolation, log of every single function-curve action in script editor, doubled phaser beam arrays and seventh generation of photon torpedoes. Last two are coming with next update, from what I heard.
Now seriously, no one offers such arsenal of rigging - animation tools, today.

julius
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by julius » 06 Jan 2017, 10:12

If you learn to find a job, then learn Maya. If you learn as hobbyist, then learn Softimage : it is way easier/faster than Maya. Softimage is not developed anymore for years, but still make things with half less clics and code than Maya. What a shame !
Autodesk did'nt work for users and industry interests these years, they just did for there wallet !

Hope one day will come where Maya will be thrown in the trash and replaced by any other non autodesk competitor :ympray:
Last edited by julius on 06 Jan 2017, 13:07, edited 1 time in total.

wesserbro
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by wesserbro » 06 Jan 2017, 12:34

Mathaeus wrote:
Bellsey wrote:Personally, if I was going to start learning rigging and animation now, I would go straight to Maya.
when even Maya LT is able to run rigs of 2K nodes and subdivided meshes at 80 FPS (personal experience), has a motion re-targeting system for pros, time editor/animation mixer, three methods of quaternion interpolation
People on big production ready to wait hours for finite elements solver to calculate deformations, yet someone exited about such minor things as 80fps sds(yeah, i remember starting topic on this forum about why deforming sds in xsi are slow B-) ) and quaternion interp. See no major advantage over good old sliced rigid binding when animating; for final result, render time covers all this 'insignificances'. Better tell me plz starting from which maya version you can click'n'drag f-curve points and handles? :)

Answers from Bellsey i read as: "if you want to succeed you better be using maya, because we (he's from autodesk, right?) made this situation where if you want to succeed you better be using maya". Sounds like a plain mockery. Ha-ha... x_x

CafeNight
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by CafeNight » 06 Jan 2017, 13:22

so I see Maya and Motion Builder from Autodesk only way be succesfull
sad but true ok going to learn it
Thanks guys for answers and explonation about it

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Mathaeus
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Mathaeus » 06 Jan 2017, 13:45

wesserbro wrote:

People on big production ready to wait hours for finite elements solver to calculate deformations, yet someone exited about such minor things as 80fps
No one animator would like to wait, or better to say, nobody likes to wait. Once machines will be able to run simulations in real time, same attitude will apply to simulated effects. They are waiting because they have no other choice, that's all about.
Other than plain speed, who is able to fly higher and faster, is able to see things, impossible to even imagine from frog perspective. Let's say that mentioned two thousands of Maya nodes, allows to have the all rigging functionality (guides, controllers, driven deformers, shadow rig, whatever) packed into one monolith rig (similar to all purpose hard surface shader in modern renderers), with everything connected and flexible all the time, elegantly leaving to machine too choose, what and how to evaluate. And... to finally forget somehow inevitable inconsistency of scripted solutions. I think I don't know for scripted auto rigger in last decade, not showing at least few lovely 'ctrl.grp.left.hidden.grp.up.grp02 is missing' warning message.
Already had something similar in smaller scale for SI, btw (I mean, generalized, monolith rig).
There are other advantages too, but let's stop where Blenderites are still able to understand :D (couldn't resist...)
wesserbro wrote: Better tell me plz starting from which maya version you can click'n'drag f-curve points and handles? :)
Don't know from which version. It's there, now. When we already about, which mode of 'select with' you'd prefer in Blender. LMB for viewport which then it is RMB for graph editor or, RMB for viewport which then it is LMB for graph editor. Perhaps is good idea to create a sort of 'preference switcher' in Blender, activated by hover, so finally to get unified selection :D .

luceric
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by luceric » 06 Jan 2017, 15:38

wesserbro wrote:People on big production ready to wait hours for finite elements solver to calculate deformations, yet someone exited about such minor things as 80fps sds(yeah, i remember starting topic on this forum about why deforming sds in xsi are slow B-) ) and quaternion interp. See no major advantage over good old sliced rigid binding when animating; for final result, render time covers all this 'insignificances'. Better tell me plz starting from which maya version you can click'n'drag f-curve points and handles? :)
Yeah, well, mister expert-on-animation, playback speed in Maya was the #1 priority for the Film Council, which includes ILM, Weta, Disney and others. They were eager to get it, some of them used betas in productions. It was developed and optimized with their film rigs from famous movies, for example Transformers.
wesserbro wrote:Answers from Bellsey i read as: "if you want to succeed you better be using maya, because we (he's from autodesk, right?) made this situation where if you want to succeed you better be using maya". Sounds like a plain mockery. Ha-ha... x_x
He's no longer at Autodesk, but the value of that reply depends, I think, mostly on whether the original poster is doing this for work or for fun, and if it's for work in what market.

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Draise
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Draise » 06 Jan 2017, 15:43

Not so keen on the software bashing at the moment...

Whatever gets the job done - whatever floats your boat.

Bellsey
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by Bellsey » 06 Jan 2017, 23:15

wesserbro wrote: Answers from Bellsey i read as: "if you want to succeed you better be using maya, because we (he's from autodesk, right?) made this situation where if you want to succeed you better be using maya". Sounds like a plain mockery. Ha-ha... x_x
The point of my post was not to necessarily pimp Maya for the sake of it. But merely to point out that in reality if someone knows nothing about rigging and animation and wishes to learn with the intent of getting a job, then there's little point in learning a software that has been retired and you can buy anymore.

In fact even as a hobbyist the same rings true. As good as Softimage is, it's no longer current and with each year of non development, it becomes less relevant.
Honestly for a hobbyist interested in 3D, Blender is probably not a bad starting point.

But Maya is by no means a bad starting point, far from it. The animation performances (as Luc-Eric has mentioned) alone have been great and I can recall doing alot of demos and presentations regarding just that one area. Alot of effort was put into that area of work. But that was a while back now (for the record I left Autodesk in April 2015), so much of my insider knowledge has probably expired. But its also worth checking out the further new animation features in Maya, because there's been some good stuff. For one the retirement of Trax and the implementation of a proper non-linear animation editor, which draws much from Softimage. And if from its death, some of the goodness from Softimage can be used to improve other software, then that can only be a good thing, imo.

wesserbro
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by wesserbro » 07 Jan 2017, 12:48

Bellsey wrote:
I'm not saying you gave bad advice.It was the only possible, actually.
I blame the situation itself, where there is no real competition (meaning you don't need to name some strong points of the software, instead you can just say "this way is the only way" and be true), which is obviously bad.

wesserbro
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Re: Animation and Rigging in Softimage after years

Post by wesserbro » 07 Jan 2017, 12:57

luceric wrote: Yeah, well, mister expert-on-animation, playback speed in Maya was the #1 priority for the Film Council, which includes ILM, Weta, Disney and others. They were eager to get it, some of them used betas in productions. It was developed and optimized with their film rigs from famous movies, for example Transformers.
.
If you have decent(to say the least) R&D and can make any tool you want, the only thing you could wish from host app (like maya) is raw performance. Thats obvious.
And i'm not saying performance is bad. Calling it 'minor' was a bit of 'frame-up' though B-)

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