Autodesk going all rental?

[Hirazi Blue]

i can't tell from this comment if you guys understand the news that's been posted or not.

Rest assured I understand the news and I am fairly certain Angus does too.
I just don't take it all that seriously anymore , I'm afraid...
;)

[pezetko]

(even daily builds are incompatible with one another in houdini, from what I've heard)

Actually that's not true.

For Windows there is VC9 and VC11 build. As long as you compile with same VC there is high chance that you are save. So plugin compiled with VC9 even for old Houdini 12 works in H13 (as long as functions in plugin are not deprecated). So there is no problem between daily builds either.


For Maya there is a little insight:
http://around-the-corner.typepad.com/ad ... eases.html

For production that runs even over half of the year or so it's very hard to roll out on new version as soon as it's introduced. There are many unknown issues that could be show stoppers. And speed of bugfixes and servis packs for new releases are not that fast at Autodesk. So usually studio sticks with older version for couple of years where all these glitches was sorted out until it has free period to test pipeline compatibility with new version (and enhancement in the new version justified the overall cost of upgrading (not just cost of new licenses)).

Where I work now we are still on 2012. And only recently the studio started update to Flames 2015 (and there is no movement in upgrading 3d to same version) but it wasn't fast nor smooth and AD support wasn't that helpful either (a lot of hardware and pipeline issues that aren't easily solved). The priority is deliver on time, nobody cares that you have software issues with new version.

[luceric]

(even daily builds are incompatible with one another in houdini, from what I've heard)

Actually that's not true.

For Windows there is VC9 and VC11 build. As long as you compile with same VC there is high chance that you are save. So plugin compiled with VC9 even for old Houdini 12 works in H13 (as long as functions in plugin are not deprecated). So there is no problem between daily builds either.

Well, I've been told by major California film client, Dreamworks I think, that plugins often break between daily builds, that's where I took that. They said this is why while they had access to the daily builds, they could never really use them. Maybe they fixed that, I don't know. It's a common problem in c++ SDK.

[pezetko]

Could be also dependent on linux distro, different libs etc.. too as it usually gets complicated there.

Usually if it's possible then whole project stays on same (usually production) build for "to be safe" reason. We had no problem with same Realflow plugin for different versions (builds) as long as we stayed on VC9 version. But it's good to have that option of daily builds and I used that at least twice during the one old project for getting quick fix that would made otherwise a long working days (with finding workarounds). (And it's good that new build is new program (installation) that sits next to the old one, so if there is any problem with the newer build than going back is just matter of running another shortcut from the desktop.)


I'm looking forward the Maya Rental scheme as it's nice way to grow and shrink the team (especially animators) based on the project (for small studio), hope it will be in some nice monthly scheme as Mudbox currently is. I don't like just one thing that "Send to" feature is tied only to the same version.

And I really hope that the Rental scheme wouldn't be tied to active online connection.

[luceric]

I'm looking forward the Maya Rental scheme as it's nice way to grow and shrink the team (especially animators) based on the project (for small studio), hope it will be in some nice monthly scheme as Mudbox currently is. I don't like just one thing that "Send to" feature is tied only to the same version.

And I really hope that the Rental scheme wouldn't be tied to active online connection.

actually Maya is rentable already since Maya 2015. It's confusingly called "Desktop Subscription" (whereas the "normal" subscription is called "Maintenance Subscription") The FAQ says you can work offline for up to 14 days.

[pezetko]

Great , I didn't know that, still stuck somewhere in 2012...

BiFrost looks promissing... I heard something about Maya rental for indie game devs, but I must check that new AD licensing scheme again...

[MauricioPC]

I just wish that they revisit the pricing of rental. Mudbox is very cheap now for rental, so it would be nice to see that in Maya or Max as well.

[FXDude]

I'm looking forward the Maya Rental scheme as it's nice way to grow and shrink the team (especially animators) based on the project (for small studio), hope it will be in some nice monthly scheme as Mudbox currently is.

Renting *options* are GOOD!
It's the renting *only* options that's considered to be pretty bad.

actually Maya is rentable already since Maya 2015. It's confusingly called "Desktop Subscription" (whereas the "normal" subscription is called "Maintenance Subscription")

Confusingly? or -deceivingly-
"Subscriptions" seems to be like the (familiar) doorway that is used to slowly introduce rental.

Traditional 'subsciption' is essentially long term rental, and "Desktop Subscription" .. well, as you say IS rental, but with a carefully chosen less 'radical' or aggressive sounding name

A little more than a year after first revealing its desktop subscription [**RENTAL**] plans,
Autodesk says it's preparing to stop selling perpetual licenses of its software entirely.

The switch won't be flipped overnight, but will be implemented a little bit at a time [in a 'painless' way] over the next one to two years, the company said.

Ah! the slow painless transitions towards the betterment of humanity.
[...]

Still, he cited Autodesk figures showing that 2.9 million users of its products are *still* [still!] on perpetual licenses
as the impetus ["a driving force"] for putting a firmer [more authorative/imposing] push behind the pay-as-you-go subscription [**rental**] model for software.

So what is the driving force? (in this case or in general?)

"The number of customers that are one to five releases back on our software stays relatively consistent year after year after year," he said.

"They are real customers …. [or "it's not that they aren't real customers..." (sigh) ]
they just happen [by pure consequence] to purchase from us perpetual licenses on an [always & forever too] infrequent basis, because they can.
[or because we *can decide* (but not for long) ]
[and Autocad 2010 still works just fine without new cloud connectivity, or especially without any 'terminator seed' features]
[and that's apart TONS of other reasons why always being 'current' may not be ideal, if not at-all acceptable in many cases.. but who cares.]

This isn't really good for our ecosystem [or not really good for the planned (dramatic) revenue increases we are aiming-for]
[the private 'ecosystem' also arguably being the *only thing* that matters]
[because] we would like to see [by forcing] everybody on our most current release.
[because *we can* (impose) now that we are everywhere ]

We think that's good for customers." [wow.. we sure do know what is best for you! (for us) ]

I'm sure it is truly beleived that it's good, or that it's -for- customers (Luceric?)
(probably for a clearer conscience, and/or to look more authentically convinced of that.. )
but...

Perpetual software licenses will be discontinued in stages over the next 12 to 24 months, according to Anagnost.
"This isn't going to be an event," he said. [gradual and 'painless']

"This is going to be a transition where we work on products and regions as we remove new perpetual licenses from the offering mix."

Hum. Working on us. .
Not much to their credit, sometimes they are SO honest when speaking without even realizing.

He discussed some of the economics behind the decision,
revealing that the "average annual value" to Autodesk of a user of one of its LT products — lower-cost, entry-level versions of its most popular tools — is $240 per year
based on their sporadic purchases of upgrades and maintenance subscriptions.

You can be pretty sure that the "average annual value of users" index, is probably what every bold or unpopular action ever taken (*many*) has been all about, or all that is seen/considered when investors see or (at all) consider users (what else is there other than that?)

By contrast, a user who has a desktop subscription [**rental**] to one of the LT products is worth, on average, $310 per year.

"That is a 30 percent increase in value [in money] back to Autodesk, [which is indeed a pretty dramatic (1/3rd) increase! off of what?]
with an offering that provides access to the customer at prices they've never seen before," Anagnost said.

A Win/Win scenario? With never before seen "accessible" prices?

Only 12 'small' payments of not 300 but 299.99999... !! The secret (or the catch) being the often ultimately considerably more expensive (but broken down and regular) rental payments,
especially if you are use to (doing the volontary act of) **upgrading when it's worth it** (3-4 years?) or just when you're good & ready. (whoop! no upgrades anymore)

Not happy? well you can take it, or change your line of work (as we are now everywhere).
It's up to you, we are commited to providing (all about preventing) choice!


Which finally brings us to what may (noticably) be the driving force.

Wall Street seems pretty happy with the news—the company's stock traded briefly earlier today at an all-time high of $58.75.

And that all-time wonderful burst of money was only from -news- of elimination of some of the less costly (or *less binding*) options...

Autodesk is a 'winning' title (by whatever means are used to 'win'), and that's all there is to it.

[talent103]

Great Points FX dude As I said before. Horse Manure from Autodesk any way you spin it.

[MauricioPC]

The guys at CGPress.org asked the major competition of AD products about future plans for rental-only options. It's refreshing to see that SideFX, Maxon, Foundry, openly saying then won't follow that trend.

Will this be truth? Only time will tell ... but it makes me happier that I'm studying C4D and Houdini now.

http://cgpress.org/archives/cgarticles/ ... g-policies

Developers’ replies

Side Effects, developers of Houdini
“There are currently no plans to stop selling permanent licenses to our customers. Houdini and Houdini FX are our commercial versions and we offer a choice between permanent and rental (subscription) licensing. Our products under $1000 such as Houdini Indie and Houdini Engine are subscription only.”

Maxon Computer, developers of Cinema 4D
“There are currently no plans to stop offering permanent licenses. If in the future MAXON decides to make a subscription model available on a monthly basis or something similar, we will offer this as an additional option, not as a replacement.”

[Hirazi Blue]

Apparently there was a motion media webinar about the new rental system. Information is rather sketchy as once again Autodesk failed to do this globally like one would expect (although, knowing Autodesk). Here are two different eye-witness accounts from the CGTalk:

so…just come off an autodesk/motion media webinar about subs and rental
maya and 3dsmax will go rental ONLY in early 2017 by the looks of it.
Autodesk Smoke has already gone rental only.
People on subs for smoke…have had their subs converted from subs to rental..same cost as subs were…so far. so that’s about 1/2 price of outright rental cost.

They (motion media) who were the hosts of the webinar say they think the same will apply to 3ds max and maya once they go rental only.

People on 3ds max 2015 who have not renewed subs have 365 days to jump back aboard subscription from when their subscription ended.

There is a migration/cross grade option to move from 3ds max over to maya if you feel 3ds max has failed to deliver anything worth while. USA price was $1840 to transfer over from max to maya.

(Quoted from here)

our vendor, motion media had an online live video stream today for its customers where people could ask questions. For some reason I was thinking it was being made directly by autodesk and all customers would be able to watch it.

Anyway, they answered a lot of questions with their presentation. We still don't know the final price of what they're charging, but they had reason to believe ongoing prices for subscription would be less than 50% what the current cost of their standalone rentals sell for.

People won't be allowed to buy perpetual licenses after Feb 1 (or I think it was the 1st)

They went over some details about the differences between buying a Desktop rental and Subscription. The Desktop rental has far fewer perks than subscription users similar to the standalone vs network editions of maya/max in regards to floating vs node-locked licenses. Desktop rental also has no commitment, where subscription does - you pay annually or I think in 3 or 6 month chunks.

At the end, someone asked about Smoke since it's not rental-only and if it's existing perpetual license customers got any discount when they had to buy into the rental model. They didn't. So who knows if that's forshadowing or not.

They are opening up multi-country licenses some. It matters where you purchase licenses, but there seems to be more flexibility than before as far as if you moved out of the country that you originally bought the licenses from or if you're in a studio that has branches or people located elsewhere.

If there's any specific questions, I can try to answer to the best of my memory, but I can't fully recite a 30 minute talk with diagrams here in a few sentences.

(Quoted from here)

IMHO Autodesk presses the magical "SendTo: resellers" a little bit too often...

[MauricioPC]

There is a migration/cross grade option to move from 3ds max over to maya if you feel 3ds max has failed to deliver anything worth while. USA price was $1840 to transfer over from max to maya.

(Quoted from here)

This part was the most amusing ...

[Shredder565]

There is a migration/cross grade option to move from 3ds max over to maya if you feel 3ds max has failed to deliver anything worth while. USA price was $1840 to transfer over from max to maya.

(Quoted from here)

This part was the most amusing ...

at least they are being transparent that max is the next one to go...

[talent103]

1st shot across the bow of the ship for max.

[Bullit]

We already saw this film.

[Bellsey]

Ok, I'm going to chime in here, because reading various posts I think people have got confused in the light of what Andrew mentioned recently.

I haven't seen the motion media webinar, but from what I can tell from peoples comments, much of the focus and information was more about the current Autodesk Subscription options. Considering that Autodesk upgrades end early next year, it's no surprise to see resellers looking to remind customers of their possible options.

It's way to early for anyone looking for specific information following Andrews comments on the recent Investor Day. People said information was sketchy and being upfront and honest, right now, not even I have precise details of what/how things will change. So I'm surprised to see a reseller try and explain anything.
For the moment, I know people want more information but it's way too early, so I would advise people to put their pitch forks down (continue to sharpen them, if you want )and wait and see what happens when more information appears.

As for peoples comments about Max - lol, seriously, come on.