What if Softimage died?

General discussion about 3D DCC and other topics

Softimage is unofficially dead what would you do ?

Poll ended at 05 Oct 2013, 13:10

Switch to Maya (including LT) / Max
13
14%
Continue using Softimage for a few years to come
59
61%
Blender
6
6%
Houdini
12
13%
Modo
2
2%
Other
4
4%
 
Total votes: 96

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talent103
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by talent103 » 28 Feb 2014, 16:22

I don't think anyone is switching right this moment. They are looking to the future just as you are and weighing their options. It takes a while before you can call yourself proficient in a different software.

Bullit
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Bullit » 28 Feb 2014, 16:23

The later people change better the decision will be.

Industry is in a transition, in 2016 for example, Modo would be better, Fabric Engine will be better, Clarice will be better, Cinema 4D will be better, Blender will be better, Houdini will be better.
Maya will not be better than Softimage in version 2015 or 2016 so there is no need to change now.

I think around 2016, 2017 we will have more complete or almost complete applications in the market so for those that can wait/choose it will be the best time to make a decision, the market of all around applications will be bigger.

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gaboraa
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by gaboraa » 28 Feb 2014, 16:43

I am currently learning Modo and Maya and hopefully already know to use Cinema 4D but up until now, none of them has made me overjoyed when using them, it was a pleasure of using Softimage and I hate Autodesk for making such a decision. Softimage is the best software I have ever used, none has gave me flexible workflows and I hate to accept the fact that Autodesk kills it. x_x

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talent103
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by talent103 » 28 Feb 2014, 17:10

That makes sense Bullit I am with you 100 %

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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by angus_davidson » 28 Feb 2014, 17:29

Bullit wrote:The later people change better the decision will be.

Industry is in a transition, in 2016 for example, Modo would be better, Fabric Engine will be better, Clarice will be better, Cinema 4D will be better, Blender will be better, Houdini will be better.
Maya will not be better than Softimage in version 2015 or 2016 so there is no need to change now.

I think around 2016, 2017 we will have more complete or almost complete applications in the market so for those that can wait/choose it will be the best time to make a decision, the market of all around applications will be bigger.
The bigger the studio the bigger the wait. The smaller / solo shops are a lot more agile. The only people who have to decide soon is the educators. There is no way you can teach a course on EOL software (even if it better the the rest) People will just not sign up for the courses and we have other legal obligations as well. Luckily for us our term started on Feb 10 so we are good for this year ;)

Bullit is right. 2-3 years down the line is when most places will switch. They will of course test the options very well before hand but it gives time for Blender, Modo and Houdini to react to the announcement and pull their socks up. For an out the Box solution I think Fabric will remain in the domain of the bigger companies and will augment whatever they choose.
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Rez007
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Rez007 » 28 Feb 2014, 19:19

I might be one of the few here that think this way, but I would be a little more careful of what people wish for with Blender. While it is great in the short run, because it is free, in the long run, if Blender becomes the de facto program years down the road, it can become very painful. Whenever you have a "zero barrier to entry" you will have an onslaught of people becoming "working artists" overnight and there will be an extreme saturation of people for the jobs that are out there. People will say that your portfolio and experience will set you aside from the others, which is true, but at a certain point you reach a critical mass where it is near impossible to be seen, regardless of what you bring to the table.

I will give an example, the mobile games industry has basically a "zero barrier to entry." For Apple, all you need is a $99 yearly developer fee, and that is it to release a game. With Blender and Unity both being free, overnight, everyone and their brother now makes games. There is almost zero quality control on Apple and Google, which allows hundreds of games to be released each and every day. There is a mass over-saturation of games and a lot of high-quality games never get scene, even if they have marketing.

All I am saying, is that why it is great to have a free program to curb upfront business costs, in the long run it might not turn out as glamorous. I would rather learn something more niche at that point, and Houdini might be it.

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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Bullit » 28 Feb 2014, 20:01

Rez007 in a new market by definition there isn't time to build a reputation. Only insistence, repetition.

Chris_TC
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Chris_TC » 28 Feb 2014, 23:12

Why is everybody so sure that death of SI is about to happen? Has something been made official? There's talk about it all over the mailing list as well, but I can't seem to find the source.
SreckoM wrote:I switched to Houdini 2 years ago. I would recommend going there plus using another app (keep XSI) if you are character modeler. Houdini is true pipeline app, you can easily combine it with any app.
That's great to hear because Houdini is pretty much the only viable option I see. How do you feel about combining Houdini with Modo? Would this somewhat be able to replace SI?

How are Houdini's importers? What formats does it handle? Can it do FBX? DWG?


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McNistor
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by McNistor » 01 Mar 2014, 06:37

Pooby wrote:In fact I'm about to buy a bunch of new licences and set up a studio that will still be based around Softimage (for the forseeable future) and increasingly, Fabric Engine and possibly Houdini.
Paul, you're a brilliant guy, don't waste any more time with a software that's been ditched by its owner, you'd be up and running in Houdini in no time.
ALso, if your business adventure would prove to be a dud for whatever reason, you'd be in a very good position as far as hiring goes, should you be interested in that nasty stuff.

As other have said, postponing the inevitable is not a wise thing to do. I mean do use XSI while still learning, but let's be clear, once they'll make the announcement it's over. They might release a SP or two but that's pretty much it. Once you find yourself in quicksand you try to get out (without sudden movements but with determination), you don't wait until it's up your nose.

As much as I love working in XSI, I don't think it's healthy pondering for long over it. Those that have been ditched by a girlfriend know what I'm talking about, which should pretty much be all of you. :))
Anyway, let's wait a few more weeks and see how it goes as it's always possible (not probable) this is just a rumor and we've been raging and ranting for nothing. :)
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by mirkoj » 01 Mar 2014, 08:44

you really think that he or anyone else can't make great work for the next 3-5 years minimum with Softimage? Even more?
There should be some really HUGE improvement in tech that would make it must to move.
Nothing really was changed at all in the last 5 years in any of software, all of them you could still be using in versions 4-5 years ago without much affect at your work.

So is it smart to ditch perfectly fine and great SI right no w when it it still on top of everything else cutting time needed for work in at least half, for some other solutions which would bring nothing new and improve on the table but make people work harder and longer?
What is really smart business decision? Think about it.

I know that I with my team will be sticking to SI as long as possible For example there isn't a SINGLE update done in the last 3-4 versions of SI that I need or use on daily basis.
3rd party developers did HUGE work that are pushing SI on steroids all the time, AD did absolutely nothing.. oh yes they did introduced nasty bugs like shader tree disconnecting and then spent year and more fixing that.
Make me sick, then pretend to be doctor and charge a lot of money for that. Nice user policy AD.

So while small and medium SI studios move to Maya and for the year or two fight with all Maya glitches, things that were natural in SI will be nightmare in Maya, trust me seen that, I will keep pushing out my projects one after another.
Btw I was using Maya for 7 years and after that on and off when had to do due to companies I worked at so I'm not just someone looking from SI side of fence and spiting to something I have no idea.

So yes I will also build studio around SI and spend more on 3rd party plugins, while those who jump from ship right away will find them self in need of new people right away, read rigger as for decent rig they need at least decent rigger and that is not really easy to find. Let not numbers fool you, there are big numbers of people for max and Maya but huge % of them are amateurs just tinkering and thinking tha they know what to do but when you get rig that is completely unorganized and have playback speed of 4fps on befy computer... you will run crying to safe SI as you know it won't fail you.
There are bunch of stuff in Maya that I would love over in SI but overall workflow and whole package.. can't be even compared.

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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Pooby » 01 Mar 2014, 10:26

McNistor wrote:
Pooby wrote:In fact I'm about to buy a bunch of new licences and set up a studio that will still be based around Softimage (for the forseeable future) and increasingly, Fabric Engine and possibly Houdini.
Paul, you're a brilliant guy, don't waste any more time with a software that's been ditched by its owner, you'd be up and running in Houdini in no time.
ALso, if your business adventure would prove to be a dud for whatever reason, you'd be in a very good position as far as hiring goes, should you be interested in that nasty stuff.

As other have said, postponing the inevitable is not a wise thing to do. I mean do use XSI while still learning, but let's be clear, once they'll make the announcement it's over. They might release a SP or two but that's pretty much it. Once you find yourself in quicksand you try to get out (without sudden movements but with determination), you don't wait until it's up your nose.

As much as I love working in XSI, I don't think it's healthy pondering for long over it. Those that have been ditched by a girlfriend know what I'm talking about, which should pretty much be all of you. :))
Anyway, let's wait a few more weeks and see how it goes as it's always possible (not probable) this is just a rumor and we've been raging and ranting for nothing. :)
Whilst it might seem folly to start initially using XSI, What really would be folly for me is suddenly ditching and replacing the years of unique workflows and methods I've built up during the years.
These comprise of a mass of tools and practices centred around ICE and I want to start working and producing, not spending a significant period mastering something else and rebuilding around a new DCC before I become useful again. I will do that over the longer term with a bespoke workflow centred around proprietory Fabric Engine coded tools. And it will be a toolset I make, unchained to any Dcc.
By the time Softimage becomes too troublesome to continue with, which no doubt it will years down the line, I will not be reliant upon it. I'm playing the longer game here, not looking for an immediate fix.

I realise I am putting my trust in Fabric, but my experience is that they are honest passionate people with whom I have met face to face, and who are transparent regarding roadmaps of where they are going. that's very refreshing and how it should be and we've been starved of that for a long while.
I believe that metaphorically speaking, for me FE will be ICE without limits and I'm excited about that.
Thanks for the advice. I fully understand it, but I feel I know what I'm doing.

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Tekano
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Tekano » 01 Mar 2014, 16:14

hah hah great , when are you thinking of hiring? :D

just wanted to add as an antithesis to the current speculative climate that am using Softimage 2014 as a crowd TD in a team of 12 making massive spaceship battles on a major marvel feature film - here is trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3isCLVghoI

and the reason being Softimage is used over Maya that, in this case, the lead TD proved that ICE was easier / faster / better to develop in than the current system they had in Maya. he used ICE to develop a custom spaceship flocking framework to allow the Crowd TD's & Artists to rapidly simulate large crowd battle motions and is fed correctly to the in-house crowd pipeline system for rendering

MPC has quite a bit of clout with Autodesk having worldwide site licenses, and have had a few hot fixes or QFE's already on Softimage 2014 over the last months. Of course, it being a global film and advertising production company it has thousands of employees worldwide and the vast majority do use Maya, Nuke, Katana etc but interestingly enough they are stuck on use Maya 2012 as, for them, currently it is more stable than 2013 & 2014 and is not likely to change it seems (until they completely switch over to custom Fabric Engine OGL apps that is) pretty close to, if not quite on the same scale, as your plan Pooby.

:-bd
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MauricioPC
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by MauricioPC » 02 Mar 2014, 04:11

Tekano wrote:hah hah great , when are you thinking of hiring? :D

just wanted to add as an antithesis to the current speculative climate that am using Softimage 2014 as a crowd TD in a team of 12 making massive spaceship battles on a major marvel feature film - here is trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3isCLVghoI

and the reason being Softimage is used over Maya that, in this case, the lead TD proved that ICE was easier / faster / better to develop in than the current system they had in Maya. he used ICE to develop a custom spaceship flocking framework to allow the Crowd TD's & Artists to rapidly simulate large crowd battle motions and is fed correctly to the in-house crowd pipeline system for rendering

MPC has quite a bit of clout with Autodesk having worldwide site licenses, and have had a few hot fixes or QFE's already on Softimage 2014 over the last months. Of course, it being a global film and advertising production company it has thousands of employees worldwide and the vast majority do use Maya, Nuke, Katana etc but interestingly enough they are stuck on use Maya 2012 as, for them, currently it is more stable than 2013 & 2014 and is not likely to change it seems (until they completely switch over to custom Fabric Engine OGL apps that is) pretty close to, if not quite on the same scale, as your plan Pooby.

:-bd
Yeah!! Softimage still kicking ass. That's what we want to hear and spread the world around.

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by Hirazi Blue » 02 Mar 2014, 11:32

The thing that would interest me, is how long Autodesk will issue "replacement" licenses for Softimage in case of new hardware and such? Will this end when support ends? And if not: how long may we expect it to last? In other words: how perpetual is my perpetual license?
:-ss
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MauricioPC
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Re: What if Softimage died?

Post by MauricioPC » 02 Mar 2014, 13:09

Hirazi Blue wrote:The thing that would interest me, is how long Autodesk will issue "replacement" licenses for Softimage in case of new hardware and such? Will this end when support ends? And if not: how long may we expect it to last? In other words: how perpetual is my perpetual license?
:-ss
Glad you have a license ... and me, who is using a student license? Should I start to save money to buy 2015 as it launches so I can use it for years to come?

I'm light years of making professional work with Softimage, but if I wait, maybe I'll never be able to buy it and use it. Damn.

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