bring back softimage.net

[Letterbox]

I think we first need to standardize the way we categorize compounds and distribute sets of them as well. Good luck getting all of us to agree on something.

Dead bang on Eric, that's why someone should just do it, make it happen, take control.

Just get some pages up, spend the $100 for you own shared server +domain, with php ruby etc, then take feedback, if you dont have the $, take up gfxman's offer till you do, otherwise you'll be here getting bogged down here in the smallest details - forever.

Most importantly: You'll have the 'experience' (you'll learn on the way) in building communities and meeting end user demand. That's a real 21st century skill worth having and in demand. It worked out quite well for a couple of companies in SFO recently, so who knows where that skill can take you. (PS always looks good on a cv/resume too)

To whomever creates it, all the best of luck to you, enjoy the ride.

Regards
Steven

[Tekano]

Just get some pages up, spend the $100 for you own shared server +domain, with php ruby etc, then take feedback, if you dont have the $, take up gfxman's offer till you do, otherwise you'll be here getting bogged down here in the smallest details - forever.
Regards
Steven

Hell yeah, last week my finger was hovering over the 'buy' button on a domain called SiCompounds.net with 2 years of bandwidth and wordpress/joomla/PHP scripting support but was worried about some of the consequences raised in this thread so didn't bother. A few different philosophies offered here, try and fail, try and succeed, don't try.... Of course there is no sure way to succeed but better to try though eh! Am still seeking out expert opinion on easiest & safest option regarding scripting / hosting user details as one thing am certain of is I DO NOT want to mess around with the security aspect. It definitely needs to to very difficult to be hackable I wouldnt want to give out user details because of some poor decisions on security.

[Letterbox]

...

I agree with what you say because you realise times have changed, and two and two does make 5, in San Raphael. It has to, because if it does not, you are always playing catchup, and he who does not define the industry becomes the loser. That's exactly why Mr. Bass is changing the corp. now. Its exactly the same reason for my last post, gaining new -relevant- skills. Its what (and it is unfortunate) that the 500 people need to understand too. I'm not sure if your aware that Mr. Bass did also add that they'll be adding 250 new jobs. The important question for all young people now and the 500, is --- what skills are not wanted, and what are.

And there's good reason for that, I wanted to share a pov from someone who has worked in Corp, that's they way you have to think - costs. An externality is a proven way to reduce costs. I'd suggest reading Milton Freidman the Nobel prize winning economist for further more on the subject. But know that the world is changing faster every day, skills get replaced, Social media sites (see facebook stock quote) get old and see no new growth, people get concerned about their investment, rightly so, you know what happens then... The economy is clearly in turbulent times, companies now and for the foreseeable future, will consistently restructure, to stay ahead of the game, they have to, to survive. You should too.

If you'd invested in yourself some years ago learning python, you'd be a real asset to any company, from ILM to Dreamworks to Everyone who uses it..because now everyone does use it. I cant think of a dcc that doesn't...That is a good example of analyzing, investing in yourself, seeing whats coming and how to leverage it for YOUR benefit. And like Para 1, if you did it now you'd be too late, you'd be playing catch up with other people more skilled and more entrenched and more well know. (I hope you see the equivalence)

So hopefully you can see that an externality, is not just product or service based but can be people based to.

Yes it's a bitch, but that's economics of today, and what value is there if you end up like FuelVFX, or http://matteworld.com/ and so on, no-one is immune, not even Autodesk.



As I said I dont think this is really the place for this, so pm, if you want/need to.
Regards
Steven

[Letterbox]

Just get some pages up, spend the $100 for you own shared server +domain, with php ruby etc, then take feedback, if you dont have the $, take up gfxman's offer till you do, otherwise you'll be here getting bogged down here in the smallest details - forever.
Regards
Steven

Hell yeah, last week my finger was hovering over the 'buy' button on a domain called SiCompounds.net with 2 years of bandwidth and wordpress/joomla/PHP scripting support but was worried about some of the consequences raised in this thread so didn't bother. A few different philosophies offered here, try and fail, try and succeed, don't try.... Of course there is no sure way to succeed but better to try though eh! Am still seeking out expert opinion on easiest & safest option regarding scripting / hosting user details as one thing am certain of is I DO NOT want to mess around with the security aspect. It definitely needs to to very difficult to be hackable I wouldnt want to give out user details because of some poor decisions on security.

If you worry about security, rules, approvals, you'll be waiting for ever.

And there is php code thats plug and play that will nullify the typical script kiddie sql injection. That's ANOTHER skill you'll learn.

Another one is, that's it's better to have a page that everyone DISAGREES with, that you can CHANGE, than NO page at all.

You have to start somewhere.

Remember that the only failure is not to try, even if it does not work out, its STILL a learning experience that you'll can gain from. That alone IS worth the cost.

Regards
Steven

PS you should not have posted up the domain, people like me will buy it, now you've got emotionally attached to it, and then sell it back to you for x10. No emotionality. Pure Economics

[Hirazi Blue]

@Tekano – While it is obviously wise to be cautious, especially where money is involved, I wouldn’t take everything that has been said in this thread to be equally valid (including, no doubt, some of my own remarks) and it most definitively shouldn't scare you off. The only way to see if such a website will succeed or fail would be to start one and see where it goes. And if it were to fail, you could easily hold your head high, knowing you tried! (And kiss your money goodbye, obviously )

Nothing prevents you from (even "drastically") fine-tuning the site after starting it. This little community here was officially in Beta for a long time to reflect this possibility of change. And even now we’re still changing things…

There are obviously some security issues, but there really isn’t all that much information you’d have to store on the server. A user name, a password and an email address. And even the email address needn’t be stored on the server if you were to put a system into place where people apply per mail for a membership. And only “uploaders” should have to be members IMHO. And they should be made aware of certain security risks beforehand… Any additional information they want to give should be considered at their own risk... (In these cases "disclaimers" and "waivers" are your friend!)

The only mood you’d probably still have to ascertain, would be that of the people on the Mailing List as some of them tend to generate a lot of content (and many of them don't seem to visit the forums) and it would be best to know their opinion beforehand also...
;)

[Tekano]

Alright! well based upon two independent but friendly web developers advice, who both said for a site like sicompounds to try out google apps for business and managed to bag http://www.sicompounds.net domain name, before LBX has any bright ideas both of them assured me that the really dreadful templates on Google sites are easily recoded and all the functionality I am after can be coded into an existing template with various google apps or built from scratch and used on the site. Also Google I believe will last longer than Autodesk as a company so no worries about the site failing before Softimage does ;) and is solid as far as security goes no?!

so now onto the site structure. am thinking of gathering some more opinions on hierarchy and category structures once I have something called a web site 'wireframe' worked out and talked to some coders on my options available regarding navigation and tags etc

Also in my interweb travels this evening it was sad to see that http://www.softimage.net has already been trolled off dirt cheap to some gamers blog, the legacy of Softimage web meets Autodesk sheer ignorance. Again..

[gustavoeb]

shout if you need help with mocking up some layouts and stuff...
may I suggest that design be netview friendly?

good luck on this endeavour

[Tekano]

Gustavoeb thanks! sure its hopefully not going to be designed by a committee but am wanting to incorporate as much input as possible from anybody that is thinking of using or contributing to it. Am not a great 'designer' of such stuff so will submit my thoughts on layout real soon. Thanks also to ximage & gfxman for offering server space, I went with a dedicated host that files can be accessed by many and admin's 'keys' can be handed over really easily if necessary. plus there is no question who owns access to the site, hopefully it will be user driven. The only way I managed to get to learn and appreciate ICE was by using and understanding compounds that other generous people had submitted to the community, so this is its mission goal to reignite this sharing and learning mentality again.

Netview version or compatible would be ideal yes but am not sure what I can / cant do yet with functionality of the navigation so far. Im thinking that some kind of database access to Google files where the compounds may be stored. again its early days.


As for ICE compound Categories, these are what Im thinking of so far, all comments and suggestions welcome!

Animation
Crowds
Deformation
Dynamics
Fluids
Kinematics
Lighting
Materials
Math
Other
Packs
Particles
Scene Management
Texturing
Tools
Topology

[druitre]

Regarding Compound categories, I always get kind of confused between the Tasks and Tools distinction. Never know where to put a compound. I know what the manual says about it, but each time I think I understand the difference along comes a compound that inverts the logic.

Anyway, categories that I use personally (in Tasks) that are not in your list are

cachetools (of which there aren't nearly enough, btw, I mean stuff like retiming/tweaking/filtering)
cloning/multiplication (scattering-tools end up there, creating copies along what have you kind of rules , hedge generator etc)
conversions (between instance shapes and meshes, for instance)
image-related (pixel particles, pooby's texture instancing, build PCloud from Image, etc)(you may have that covered with 'textures')

Where would you put Motion Graphics tools?

(maybe some kind of division into sub-categories would be useful to avoid having too many categories?)

good luck!!
Jasper

[gfxman]

Avoid to much categories, it can get confusing.
Something as complex as "Motion Tools" should be under "misc" or " complex tools"

[Tekano]

heh well let the discussion begin!

I agree, the less categories the better.

Personally, dont think we should have sub categories. like the old downloads section I want 2/3 clicks to get compound. so it would be

1. category
2. a scrollable sub list of category items with thumbnail & name that can be sorted by name / date / etc (can download from here)
3. page description of compound (can download from here)

motion tools - if we are talking about one specific compound it could go in 'Animation' if we are talking about Gustavoeb's collection of compounds then it would go in 'Packs' I agree caching is a good category in itself as there are various ways to retime a cache and others have done caching compounds. and tools is a bit vague yes.

cloning / scattering would, depending on how it functioned would be under Topology or Particles

Conversion - guess that would be under tools

pixel particle / 2d image stuff under Texturing as I believe a UV is necessary to read off the geometry for these to work

so here is the updated list

Animation
caching
Crowds
Deformation
Dynamics
Fluids
Kinematics
Lighting
Materials
Math
Other
Packs
Particles
Scene Management
Texturing
Tools
Topology

[rray]

Categories would work for compounds, but if the site is intended to be extended to more at some point, I think using tags instead of categories would be a better option. Most things do not fit into one category only and it becomes likely that someone misses an addon, looking inside the "wrong" category.

[Tekano]

@rray very true, and am hoping to also support 'tags' in the compound description and searching by tags too. If the site were to be extended , say for materials, then there would be two category trees Ice Compounds & Rendertree Compounds

[grahamef]

heh well let the discussion begin!

...

Animation
caching
Crowds
Deformation
Dynamics
Fluids
Kinematics
Lighting
Materials
Math
Other
Packs
Particles
Scene Management
Texturing
Tools
Topology

For me, "Packs" sticks out like a sore thumb in this classification scheme. Everything else is categorized by what it does, not how it's packaged. If I'm looking for a solution to a problem, I don't know in advance whether the answer is one compound or many.

I also think there's quite a bit of overlap between "Fluids" and "Dynamics". Maybe these can be merged.

There should be a category for small utilities that can be used pretty much anytime and anywhere. Is that what you intend for "Tools"? If not, then maybe a "General" category is in order (or perhaps rename "Tools")?

[gustavoeb]

Agree with Graham...
When things are implemented as .xsiaddons with scripts, shelfs, maybe dlls, scripted operators and stuff they are just plugins, even if the bulk of the work is executed by compounds.

I see compound sharing more like a way to adress specific tasks not complete solutions like that...

[Tekano]

thanks grahamef, I agree actually , there is no function in packs. 'Packs' was a response to how some folk have done a a whole package of compounds inside a plugin and a possible way it could be categorised. if the Package has a theme then perhaps that is a way it could be categorised. I was just trying to aniticipate down the line when it comes to drag and dropping the link *all* the packs would be an archive format or .xsiaddon wheras everywhere else is the .xsicompound. maybe 'suites' is a better word ;) but yes I think its possible to dissolve this category and like gustavoab mentions if its not technically an .xsicompound then it is a separate category, perhaps 'Plugins' or 'Addons' please Softimage make your mind up. is this two categories or one?

Tools / General /Other 'tools' I saw as utilities and handy stuff yes and 'general' I prefer now than 'other'. also I think an 'All' for the happy wheel spin scrollers?

Fluids / Dynamics definately two categories. Unless there is a consensus otherwise we have enough fluidy type compounds that could be splashes, oceans, abstracted, particle, SPH or grids or hybrid , wheras Dynamics could be hangy stuff, cloths and rigid / soft bodies and verlet type compounds or simple collision stuff. But then some of these could go in Deformation. I think we will have to accept some grey areas in these distinctions. Again Tags will hopefully help alleviate some of these, guess Im too old school with the categories.


so new Category list

All
Animation
caching
Crowds
Deformation
Dynamics
Fluids
General
Kinematics
Lighting
Materials
Math
Particles
Plugins (?)
Scene Management
Texturing
Tools
Topology