Compositors Decision

Discussions about FX-Tree and Compositing generally

What compositor would you use

Poll ended at 06 Nov 2012, 03:35

Autodesk Composite
2
10%
Adobe After Effects
8
40%
Softimage FXTree
10
50%
 
Total votes: 20

Falam

Compositors Decision

Post by Falam » 25 Oct 2012, 04:35

I made this little poll to get some input on compositors I'm considering. I've been somewhat using Composite but it feels, metaphorically speaking as though it's going to fall apart in my hands, although I will continue to use if need be. I don't have a Nuke budget, as nuke is expensive. What choice would you make ? There is one open source alternative that interests me, but it's in re-development, I have to exclude it out.
http://www.jahshaka.com/

iamVFX
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by iamVFX » 25 Oct 2012, 07:31

I would use Softimage Illusion if its development hadn't stopped

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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by forton » 25 Oct 2012, 11:03

+1

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Rork
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by Rork » 25 Oct 2012, 11:36

Well... there's no simple answer to this one.

Yes, you can (still) do a lot in the FXTree, and for a lot of projects it will (still) do fine. As the other stuff you can do in the FXTree and pipe it back into your 3D scene.
But yes, new stuff/dev for the FXTree hasn't been available for a while.

As going for free, Composite would be the next step. But are people willing to invest serious amounts of time into an app where development has slowed down to just patches?
Just look at the Realviz apps here to see what can happen.

After that, AE will be the next step, money wise that is. Will take you back a $1000,- as a standalone app. Has tons of tuts and plugins that keeps you busy for a while. Probably is the one with the lowest learning curve. Will also do lots of motion graphicy tricks.

After that, it's basically Fusion or Nuke. Fusion is the cheapest of the two, appr. $ 2500,- and $ 500,- for render licenses, so that would make it the next candidate.
Then Nuke, appr. $4900,- and $8000,- for it's bigger brother NukeX, is way out of reach for most freelancers and smaller companies out there that don't do a lot of dedicated comps.

In the end it all depends on your needs. Up to a certain point the FXTree will do fine. It has been a professional composite app for years, before they bolted it on to SI.
When stepping into the more complex composites and integrated workflows, you'll have to look into other decisions.
And that might mean couching up some serious money....

Nuke, as expensive as it it to a lot of people, has gained serious ground over the last few years. There's no 3D/Post company I know off/visit that has moved over to Nuke, or using it besides Fusion, AE and other solutions. So learning Fusion and/or Nuke (Student version) would be a smart thing for future jobs.

And my hopes aren't really on the freeware side for stuff like this. Yes, all the math behind compositing is free for the taking, but writing a proper compositing app that will scale well in a production environment (very important) is a tough task. There are many out there, like Yahshaka, but they never seem to get past the 0.x phase, or have weird, non conforming GUI's, workflows and such. That's important too when you want to take a piece of the market, don't stray too much of the beaten path unless it's revolutionary to do so.
A good example is Blender, a lot of people praise the free app, but cannot seem to get past the non-standard GUI.

I'll stop now, and see how this thread will continue.

rob
SI UI tutorials: Toolbar http://goo.gl/iYOL0l | Custom Layout http://goo.gl/6iP5xQ | RenderManager View http://goo.gl/b4ZkjQ
So long, and thanks for all the Fish!!

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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by Hirazi Blue » 25 Oct 2012, 11:55

The most obvious option missing from the above poll is “other”, but in my case it would be using “both”, FXTree and Composite. The FXTree because of its integration into Softimage, using Composite more as a very clunky addon for some of the stuff the FXTree can’t handle directly (primarily for anything related to motion vector passes). Not an ideal solution, but I am (and always will be) a “starving hobbyist”, so the “free” aspect of it all is a great incentive to keep on using both…
$-)
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by gustavoeb » 25 Oct 2012, 12:14

What about blenders compositor? That is very free
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Hirazi Blue
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by Hirazi Blue » 25 Oct 2012, 12:23

I vowed a solemn oath never to use Blender again, until they stop invading my country! *** :D

No seriously, last time I checked the Blender Compositor was very much in development.
Has this changed significantly already?
Is it really on par with the FXTree and Composite already?

*** I live in the Netherlands...
Stay safe, sane & healthy!

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mattmos
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by mattmos » 25 Oct 2012, 12:48

The Adobe creative cloud option looks fairly affordable (£46.88 per month over a year period) and gives you access to an awful lot more than just After Effects. Just another option to consider.

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by Daniel Brassard » 25 Oct 2012, 17:01

Two other to consider: Adobe Premiere ($800 US) and AVID Media Composer ($2500 US).

Still would go for the cheap stuff first: FXTree (Illusion), Composite, Blender Compositor then Adobe Premiere or After Effects as Mattmos said.
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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ActionArt
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by ActionArt » 25 Oct 2012, 17:17

Daniel Brassard wrote:Two other to consider: Adobe Premiere ($800 US) and AVID Media Composer ($2500 US).
Those are editors though, not compositors. I use MC a fair bit and I can't say it's well suited to any real compositing. It could so some things but very awkwardly.

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Daniel Brassard
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by Daniel Brassard » 25 Oct 2012, 17:25

Those are editors though, not compositors. I use MC a fair bit and I can't say it's well suited to any real compositing. It could so some things but very awkwardly.
Well said (me bad), then the choice is narrowed down.

P.S. OT, ActionArt, you must have been quite busy, didn't see too many post from you lately?
Last edited by Daniel Brassard on 25 Oct 2012, 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
$ifndef "Softimage"
set "Softimage" "true"
$endif

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ActionArt
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by ActionArt » 25 Oct 2012, 17:28

Daniel Brassard wrote:P.S. OT, ActionArt, you must have been quite busy, didn't see too many post from you lately?
Yes, unfortunately, on Media Composer, not SI (very unfortunately)! These damn day jobs always take away from all the good stuff...

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ActionArt
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by ActionArt » 25 Oct 2012, 17:49

Falum, is there some specific feature you need that isn't in the FX Tree? If not, the FX Tree has the huge advantage of being integrated and relatively easy to use. I would give it a try unless it's just missing something you really need.

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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by luceric » 25 Oct 2012, 18:06

I have difficulty with the Composite UI, but it's a vastly superior floating point compositor than the FxTree, and in the same class as Nuke in terms of architecture, speed and floating point support. And it supports OpenFX plug-ins. They fixed these stability issues last year, I'm told.

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ActionArt
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by ActionArt » 25 Oct 2012, 18:27

Very interesting insight. I'll have to try it again. The interface was really unstable but maybe it's OK now.

Edit: just installed Composite for 2013 SP1 (hoping that is the fixed one) and got the error "Cannot determine a product license to use". Nice.

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Mathaeus
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Re: Compositors Decision

Post by Mathaeus » 25 Oct 2012, 19:55

Hirazi Blue wrote: No seriously, last time I checked the Blender Compositor was very much in development.
Has this changed significantly already?
Is it really on par with the FXTree and Composite already?
Just for info, there is a new compositor in latest Blender. It's tile based, able to run on GPU ( never tried this option). It has a proper interpretation of pre-multiplied alpha on floating point exr - difference is especially noticeable on transparent details, hair or so. Something that After Affects can't do to this very day (if I'm correct). Author did it for money, there was a special donation program for that. It's node based, so it's not hard to do some complex composite - also something that After Affects can't do to this very day :). I think it can take vector motion blur form another apps, not only form Blender. There is a lot of threads in composting section at blenderartists.org .
But, popularity of some general purpose tool which can do everything and shines in nothing, like After Effects, IMHO tells that small facilities actually don't need some heavy compositing. Video editing software seems to be more important. Let's say, where I'm work, galls and guys likes their Avid Media Composer, log time before it was Avid DS. After Effects is like some screwdriver,
everyone needs this thing, but nobody is 'proud' of it.

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