Old skin (NO SSS)???

[Hirazi Blue]

As I am not having any real luck creating a skin shader for a not so realistic head (of the vaguely human variety) and I can't get my own head around the SkinSSS-shader, I am looking for some render tree setup for skin shading NOT using the SkinSSS , but something "old fashioned" like the "Human Skin Incandescence 0.9"-preset I have been using a lot. To reiterate: I'm NOT looking for tips on using the SkinSSS , I am looking for something "old school" ;) , as I don't need ultra hyperrealism, I just want to "quickly" shade a NPR-ish head (and perhaps learn some more about the render tree!!!)...


Hope this makes any sense, thanks in advance, even if it doesn't... ;)

[Letterbox]

As I am not having any real luck creating a skin shader for a not so realistic head (of the vaguely human variety) and I can't get my own head around the SkinSSS-shader, I am looking for some render tree setup for skin shading NOT using the SkinSSS , but something "old fashioned" like the "Human Skin Incandescence 0.9"-preset I have been using a lot. To reiterate: I'm NOT looking for tips on using the SkinSSS , I am looking for something "old school" ;) , as I don't need ultra hyperrealism, I just want to "quickly" shade a NPR-ish head (and perhaps learn some more about the render tree!!!)...


Hope this makes any sense, thanks in advance, even if it doesn't... ;)

use a phongs, the of them all different colours, if fact why not learn rather than me tell you, google old masters paint techniques, where they apply 3 layers of paint, you can do the same and use the mixer node.

[Hirazi Blue]

Don't you just love it, such an extremely helpful reply: I won't tell you, find out for yourself!
Sorry, but I've tried a lot already, otherwise I wouldn't have asked.

[j3st3r]

why do you exactly avoid fast skin?

You could drive some incandescence with incidence node (based on Camera and light incidence). I'm afraid that those were one-lighting-setup solutions, as they worked in a given light setup. If that changed you had to restart the shading tree. I suggest you to dig into SSS, not a complicated thing. And very cool.

[Hirazi Blue]

Thanks for the comment on "incidence", I've already noticed that this isn't the easiest node to use! ;)

why do you exactly avoid fast skin?

Well, I haven't as of yet been able to achieve anything useable with the "fast skin" and by usable I mean: to my liking... ;) Basically, I just don't get it! I understand it, that's not the problem, I just don't "get" it...
But as I have noticed in a similar thread I once started in a different community, there just somehow seem to have been no serious attempts at skin-shading before the "fast skin" (or at least no one remembers how), as that thread also changed into a "fast skin"-workshop...

[Letterbox]

Don't you just love it, such an extremely helpful reply: I won't tell you, find out for yourself!
Sorry, but I've tried a lot already, otherwise I wouldn't have asked.

well I dont know, maybe you searched for the wrong thing?



Cheers
Terry

[Hirazi Blue]

I really hope, there was a smiley missing from your last post...
(As there probably was from mine!)

[Letterbox]

I really hope, there was a smiley missing from your last post...
(As there probably was from mine!)

Happy Reading.

specifically look for under painting.

Acrylic Painting: A Complete Guide - Google Books Result
http://www.explore-drawing-and-painting ... ues-1.html
http://www.artpapa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20084
http://www.1art.com/tips.htm
http://www.starrabbott.com/article-pain ... niques.htm
http://www.artbistro.com/training/artic ... -technique
http://painting.about.com/od/oldmastert ... aVinci.htm

http://www.saratoga-arts.org/ALDOLIRA.pdf

Cheers
Terry

MOD edit: I've placed the working links in URL-tags (possibly unknown board-custom: links between URL-tags open in a new window), fixed one link and I've highlighted the two links still not working for you!!!) - HB

[Letterbox]

I really hope, there was a smiley missing from your last post...
(As there probably was from mine!)

Happy Reading.

specifically look for under painting.

Acrylic Painting: A Complete Guide - Google Books Result
ww.explore-drawing-and-painting.com/oil-painting-techniques-1.html
www.artpapa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20084
http://www.1art.com/tips.htm
http://www.starrabbott.com/article-pain ... niques.htm
http://www.artbistro.com/training/artic ... -technique
http://painting.about.com/od/oldmastert ... aVinci.htm

http://www.saratoga-arts.org/ALDOLIRA.pdf

also if those dont help you out, visit your local art shop as them about underpainting with Acrylic or Oil's.

Cheers
Terry

MOD edit: ??? - HB

[Deracus]

first and foremost i am writing a reply here, because the atmosphere in this thread is becomming rather quirky,....so i would suggest to let everything calm a bit down.

Considering the above-mentioned problems, i DO find the links and the hints of Letterbox very helpful as for making believeable skin there are - in my opinion - only two serious ways.

1. Imitating the old masters and the traditional way of painting skin via different color-layers, that are blended together via a Mix-Node (as he described it in his first reply)

2. Mimic the original physical and biological conditions of skin and therefore using and understanding the SSS-principles.

I can understand, that you would love to have something like a "Do this, click that"-Link that delivers you the exact result of your imagination in your head as the end-result. But i don´t think it´s fair to react like that on all other approaches, that are offered here.

By the way...my quick and dirty sugestion:

Make a UV-Map, use a phototexture as difuse layer of a phong and tone the spec VERY MUCH down and make it very broad and soft...also add some kind of yellowish orangeish tint to it....et voila...there is your skin.,..

[Hirazi Blue]

@Deracus - while I wholeheartedly agree, this thread has turned slightly ugly, I take offense at the suggestion, that I only would be willing to accept some "one click solution". But hey, I won't take this any further. I commented on j3st3r remark about incidence as I felt that answer took the question seriously. If I wanted a course on art history, I would have been able to Google that myself, thank you very much... I may be a dillettante at Softimage, I'm not an idiot...

[Deracus]

i never ever wanted to assume, that you are an idiot. If my reply got you the feeling, i apologize for that.
My only intention was to sum up my ideas for you...and the impressions i got, while following the discussion between you and letterbox.

The replies from him and also mine aren´t about "go google for art-history"...they are serious attempts to solve your problem...even if it doesn´t look like that to you.
The classical ways of drawing skin inflict applying several layers of color and removing/overlaying them according to the facing-angle of the surface...you could now take that knowledge and mimic this behaviour in softimage using a mix node with - for example - an incidence node as the weight. With that you could try and - at least i think so - achieve a rather convincing result...

posting links to traditional sources about that way of solving this shouldn´t be taken as an offense, but more as an attempt to give you a better understanding about the underlying principles. At least for me it is much better to understand the pure intentions of a solution rather than just the application in a specific case...

Only because the reply of Letterbox wasn´t exactly about softimage but more about traditional art, it doesn´t mean, that he doesn´t take your problem serious...


By the way...and this is only a slight sidenote, which can completely be over-read:
Only because you´ve put i smiley at the end, doesn´t necessarily attenuate the effect of the content to the reader...

[Letterbox]

Well excuse me if you took offense to my posts. I was trying to help you, to give you and understanding of how you can apply traditional art to the new technology. And of course there would have to be some reading and understanding involved.

Because that's the way most things are done, from modeling, to camera work, to shaders, look at the old techniques and apply to the new technology. And with that knowledge you can not only solve this problem, but many others.

If there is some thing else you meant or wanted please say so.

Cheers
Terry

[Hirazi Blue]

As it has become quite obvious, that I'm the only one who meant offense,
I do most humbly apologize for my extreme wrong-doing...

And the side-note stuff: Smileys do help, IF you try to take them into account...

I'm leaving the closing of this thread for some other Mod to wander by...

[Letterbox]

No problems, just relax, say if what I mentioned is what you wanted or you dont have time to do it, or if the other points dont help you achieve the goal, and we'll try to help you get what you want.

Cheers
Terry

[Hirazi Blue]

My sincere thanks for understanding...
I may be experience an "off day"...

Maybe I really was on the wrong track, but I was looking for something more or less directly render tree related, even if I still had to implement the ideas myself... My problem with true art is mainly that I can appreciate it, but severely doubt ever being able to recreate stuff like that (being a self-confessed dilettante)... But hey, some new ideas (and new good friends, I hope ), have come from this... We'll see where it takes me... ;)