Where do we go from here?

[Hirazi Blue]

Warning: I'm writing this in a totally non-official capacity, not as a Moderator of this community, merely as a concerned member

This community started little over two months ago. While it seems to have struck a nerve initially, it just doesn't seem to "take off". This makes me wonder, why this might be so. Is there something missing (except your voice maybe!!! ) or is it just too soon to tell? Personally I think there's still room for improvement (as there always should be!). That said, it would interest me, what you (yeah , you!!! ) think about the way this community is developing and how it could be improved.

[Letterbox]

Warning: I'm writing this in a totally non-official capacity, not as a Moderator of this community, merely as a concerned member

This community started little over two months ago. While it seems to have struck a nerve initially, it just doesn't seem to "take off". This makes me wonder, why this might be so. Is there something missing (except your voice maybe!!! ) or is it just too soon to tell? Personally I think there's still room for improvement (as there always should be!). That said, it would interest me, what you (yeah , you!!! ) think about the way this community is developing and how it could be improved.

Ok, a few things,

do you want millions of posts, and few and far between answers? If that's the case, what have you 'actively' done to promote this site?

do you just want "repeat posts" same as other sites, which chummy desperately looking for an answer, so he posts it on as many as possible?

If you want more posts, but still keep a sense of community, how have you tried to 'involve' people, and why should they visit here vs. all the others, + in their own language too? Simply put whats unique about here? And how have you tried to "sell' that?

Also remember Rome was not built in a day. (although I believe the 3d version was ;) )

And when I say "you", i mean "the management" and all that includes

Cheers
Terry

[Hirazi Blue]

do you want millions of posts, and few and far between answers?

Simply put: no! (Would mean lots of reading for the Moderators, among other things... ;) )

do you just want "repeat posts" same as other sites, which chummy desperately looking for an answer, so he posts it on as many as possible?

Again: no, however one does notice reposting issues across the boards
can result in interesting, sometime widely different answers, so I do not want to rule it out

If you want more posts, but still keep a sense of community, how have you tried to 'involve' people, and why should they visit here vs. all the others, + in their own language too? Simply put whats unique about here? And how have you tried to "sell' that?

I think that's the root of the problem: involving people. This community can't claim many unique features , "hard selling points" per se. But I started this thread to open the discussion, how to change things, getting the members more involved...

One example I found interesting, was, while the announcement of Softimage 2010 spawned heated discussion on other forums, it did not really take off here.

[Tekano]

I think this site is great and try and visit it often, there nothing obviously wrong, it is just the extra 'voices' that are missing - IMO the shellshock or post traumatic stress of the previous Softimage community site being butchered takes time to heal. As the proverb goes 'once bitten, twice shy'. The community that existed, and was growing, is probably (who really knows?) reluctant to commit again and as 'The Area' is such a poor replacement which leaves a sour taste, I think its going to be a while before everyone is comfortable again.

Another factor that really helped the old community site was regular posting of ICE compounds. because the AREA is so dreadful to look at or search the number of new compounds submitted has dropped dramatically and also on this site there is hardly any. maybe if there was just one place (that people liked) where all compounds, including all the previously submitted ones, were situated, and easily searched, it may help the situation.

my 2 pence

[Hirazi Blue]

The problem with hosting ICE Compounds (and other "stuff") is that "we" would need explicit permission by their respective authors to do so and "permission hunting" can be a time-consuming (and frustrating) endeavor...

[Tekano]

yeah I know and empathize with your frustrations. We just have to accept the loss of a great site and try to move forward. hence your post !

[Letterbox]

The problem with hosting ICE Compounds (and other "stuff") is that "we" would need explicit permission by their respective authors to do so and "permission hunting" can be a time-consuming (and frustrating) endeavor...

Ok but and i'm serious, have you gone to other boards and pm'ed everyone begging?? Seriously... you've (trust me i know) maybe you gotta do this.

Then again commitment is needed, also make this forum more ice centric. But you've gotta back that up with some tuts like 1 a week..

I honestly believe if that was done, you've got a market, right there, also ask Eric, owei, to help you out, even if its promo'ing em'stuff. At least people can learn, right!!

And look we have emfluid and render, and newton, there are question's I want to ask at some point, i know thats going to happen, so ask eric etc if they want to do this - answer here in the form of a real world tut. Ok so it's a little sales'y, but its not all going to be like that.

As i said it takes time and commitment, and the ability to sell it. You cant get around that.

Hope that helps

Cheers
Terry

[Hirazi Blue]

Well, I hope you're not implying any lack of commitment on "our" part...

You're points are valid nonetheless, although I don't think making this community more ICE centric would truly help. It's sometimes easy to forget,
but there's still more to (X)SI than meets the ICE!
That said, the question if this community should focus more on ICE-Stuff would definitely be an interesting topic for further debate. We could however also consider opening a Face Robot forum to cater to the newest shiny gimmick Autodesk is about to throw at us...
I hasten to add: ICE obviously is more than a gimmick, as is Face Robot...

My main concern still seems to be, how to motivate people to start treating this community as a community, not just another forum... You can add all kinds of fancy eyecatching features, but this community shouldn't be just a neat place to visit, it should invite you to participate...

[Deracus]

How? Put simply....you have to offer something they want.
Everything in life is about giving and taking...mostly taking...so is it with this community.

I think the ideas thrown in by Terry are really worth a try. We - and with 'we' i refer to us as a community to which i humbly would count myself - should start and try to become more individual, distinguishable and appealing to the crowd.
We can´t simply stay here and say 'Oh come on guys, post more valuable content.' Such things have to grow. And like every plant, they need some soil to grow on.

I would try to gather the guys around, that are throwing out these great new ICE-based additions and make something like a workshop-week or stuff like that. Sure thing, that they do not have all the time in the world to give it away for free...but maybe there is a chance, that some of them are willing to take the effort.
And there is also a perspective in it for them. Look over at conceptart.org. They are hosting those kinds of workshops for quite some time but they are not everytime for free. If they think some of them are worth it, they are offering them for 70-90 $ as a special workshop event for everyone who is willing to join in and it seems to work.

I´m not saying, that you should start and build up a commercial system where one has to pay for each and everything...i´m just spinning the story further into the future. If it´s possible to establish a healthy workshop-culture then there can be the possibility for the workshop-leaders to have something from it too. But before that, we of course need free workshops as a beginning. And as some of the Plugins aren´t there for free, the workshop-hosters would also have something from it, as it could drive there sales...

So why not ask Eric, Owei, Werner, Thiago Costa and whoever i might have forgotten, if they are interested in starting something. An idea would also be to host some kind of theme night with guys from the industry. Some kind of meet and greet with the possibility of questions to the creators of our beloved tools. You could try and ask autodesk, if they are interested in participating. They could use this event to come into direct contact with the users. Explain some things about this and that. Maybe also some hands-on-training with the new features. It shouldn´t be that expensive for them as a company to put one guy over here, who spends one evening with the user-base. The possibility to gain a better standing at the base could compensate for that effort easily.

Another idea would be to try and start some contests...with prices as incentives of course. Some simply Speed-Modeling Contests with nothing else but fame aren´t really attracting a crowd....but what would be, if - for example eric and owei would host some kind of crazy emFluid contest, where they offer a special em-version with a time-based license? I´m talking of something similar to what cgsociety did with XSI 6.5. 'Create something amazing with emFluid' and the winner could get a free fulltime-license of emFluid and emPolygonizer or something like that.

I know, that all of my examples are very 'em-centric' but it seems to be a handy example....fill in any other successful plugin or name you know.

Another good idea is really to make everything here a bit more ICE-Centric. I know, that SI has a lot more to offer then just ICE...but why not go out and try to create a meeting-place for the real specialists? Maybe start some kind of talk-round, where all the pro´s can participate in and philosophize about what could be improved and where the nuts and bolts of ICE are at the moment.

Sure thing, that this isn´t something for the broad masses...but being able to talk and listen directly to the top-notch-ICE-experts could be a valuable honeypot for the normal users making their first steps in ICE.

Also some kind of 'Hands on Workshop with ICE' could get them started.
Besides...maybe you can get your wraps around some kind of rigging genius willing to give some in-depth perspective about the neat things there are in SIs Animation Toolbox?


I could continue on and on...but i think i made my point.
Incentives, value....is what attracts the masses...at least i think so.
We have to find something

[Letterbox]

Hirazi, i am not going to comment on if or not the pm's were done, but i will say, you, too often, think things are an attack, and don't see the whole, because of it.

eg "Well, I hope you're not implying any lack of commitment on "our" part... " !!!
Hirazi, in all honesty if i wanted to say that, I would have SAID that, don't you think? And if i didn't, well that's mean's i didn't.

But lets move back to the land of the productive....

Whats is the least amount of training out there? ICE.
Whats the most steep learning curve out there? ICE.
Whats the most visually impressive? Possibly ICE.
Whats the most thanks for Redi for? ICE.

That's why I say suggest to make it ICE centric. As sometimes 2+2 does = 4.

But as I say these are "Suggestions", "the management" have to sit down analyze it, think it thru, and make a decision.
Maybe things will change when the summer ends?
Or just let it be.


But at least I commented.

Cheers
Terry

[Hirazi Blue]

Then again commitment is needed (...) As i said it takes time and commitment

No you didn't actually say it, now did you?
But interestingly enough I didn't even claim you said it, I was just wondering if you implied it...

Hirazi, i am not going to comment on if or not the pm's were done

It can always be argued, not enough has been done, but rest assured some effort has been put into it, even if it apparently doesn't show. But even if more energy and time were put into it, would it really make a difference? IMHO a community should generate most of it's content as a community, a team (however dedicated) can only do so much... Maybe it's time some other members of said team step up and share their views on the subject, before my apparently blatant paranoia and obvious lack of anger management skills make this thread turn ugly once again.... And we don't want that, now do we??? ;;)

[farhaad_yousefi]

Warning: I'm writing this in a totally non-official capacity, not as a Moderator of this community, merely as a concerned member

This community started little over two months ago. While it seems to have struck a nerve initially, it just doesn't seem to "take off". This makes me wonder, why this might be so. Is there something missing (except your voice maybe!!! ) or is it just too soon to tell? Personally I think there's still room for improvement (as there always should be!). That said, it would interest me, what you (yeah , you!!! ) think about the way this community is developing and how it could be improved.

i think it's a great place..and all it needs is time.!

[Mootzoid]

Hey guys,

I just read the whole thread and though I'd "add my mustard to it" (that's a German expression ).

Many good thoughts and many good ideas, really. Deracus' idea of an emFluid2 contest is great, I would definitely be very glad to support it !!
Appart from that I must say that some kind of specialization could really be a good thing and as ICE the the most "en vogue" at the moment...

cheers,
Eric

[Hirazi Blue]

Okay, in the spirit of more ICE: as a community effort, it might be an idea to attempt creating a "missing manual" for most (if not all) of the compounds in "Phil's ICE pack". I for one can say, as an ICE beginner, I am struggling to understand them all...

[owei]

Hi guys..!

Time to drop my notes on this topic ;) In first place I think, that this place needs some more time to get a more busy place of discussion. Though I like this around "20 posts a day"-activity ;)
It would be nice, if more members could participate in certain activities. But this may happen in the future.
Concentrating on ICE is a good idea to think of. Doing workshops has not been that successful on the old community site. So, I´m a bit sceptical about that. I thought of doing special ICE tutorials. Means, someone states a problem and some tough guys come up with a solution as a video-tutorial...

cheers,
oliver

[Deracus]

[...] Deracus' idea of an emFluid2 contest is great, I would definitely be very glad to support it !! [...]

Hey...i almost thought, that i activated the [invisible]-tags around my post, as there was no reaction. Thanks for proving me wrong ;)
Glad you like the idea...if you would need some help with it, i would like to support you as much as it is possible for me to do.

Besides...Owei, i´m also a bit sceptical about the Workshop, as we have seen, that it might not act up as desired...but i still believe, that it would be worth a try again, as there seem to be quite a few ICE-Power-Users in here.

On the other hand...maybe we could start with something like a theme event, which we could propagate 2 or 3 weeks in advance, where users can "register" to take part and then hold up some kind of moderated workshop in the time of a few hours, where a specific problem gets discusses by a "mentor" and the users can follow and ask questions as things go...
This more concentrated form of a workshop could help to make it more alive...maybe...