Where do we go from here?

[Letterbox]

oliver,

here's an idea for a simple one to start off, since emNewton is free everyone could follow it.

How with emNewton do you make a spiral galaxy, with it spinning and particles flying off? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_galaxy)

and of course you could render it with emRenderPointCloud ;)

Cheers
Terry

[opentarget]

i thinks its a great forum and given time it will expand and grow to what you intend for it.
perhaps to help with the sense of community we could organise a collaborative project similar to the ones done by the hash animation community(but nicer). this might be a lot of work and we might not get the interest...but with a lot of artists out of work and new up and coming artists looking to get a foot in it may be a good opportunity and worth putting up a thread about to see if the intarest would be there. alos this would be a great way to promote the site if tutorials and so on are being shown during the production.

[Hirazi Blue]

I really like the idea of a collaborative project, but after having watched another community struggle with setting up such a project and ultimately giving up on the whole idea, I guess one would need a very very good idea to get things going and to motivate enough people to actually participate. But if you or anybody else has gotten such an idea, please let's hear it, as I am all for it!!!

[opentarget]

well ill defiantly think about it over the next few days and come back with some ideas/plan of action. ill set up a poll in a new thread and see if the interest is there.
what other projects lack in my opinion is proper structure, if we could organise the project to be run with community in mind and structure it in such a way as to avoid the pitfalls of other community run projects we might be able to do it?

[bryitis]

I come here often, because I actually like this (somewhat smaller) community feel. I'm terrible with names and faces and it takes me a while to learn the character of a person based on forum communication (not like that is a primary reason for coming to a site like this, but its nice to have familiars). But i sympathize because there are certainly times when i visit here and watch the metaphorical tumble weed roll by.

I surely hope nobody takes this the wrong way, because i don't point this at anyone in particular for sure... but here goes. In the past, I've heard many people complain because of a perceived "elitism" among the XSI online user base. While I don't really agree with this sentiment, i actually do think i understand where it came from. There are a lot of 'Pros' in our community... and a lot of people are doing truly amazing things using Softimage in their careers. But actually seeing the fruits of these labors become useful to the general user base seems a little bit too rare, as if people are scared to reveal their trade secrets. Perhaps the amount of sharing only seems less than others (like Maya, Max) because our community really is smaller, i personally think that's the main reason.

But what if this community fosters the idea of collaboration, and sharing... perhaps through its presentation and design. This is where I really agree that making it ICE-centric could go a long ways. I'd love to see a repository of version tractable ICE compounds and other relevant files, fully searchable with a flexible tagging system, comments, etc. This is an area that you could really go over-the-top and it still may not be enough. But focus on functionality, and exploration/navigation/updates/comments... and people will come back for more. Assuming all goes well with the ICE library, expand out to other areas of Softimage resources, starting with whatever people want the most.

Another idea (my favorite one) is to set up a point-of-sale system that can be used by approved, authorized members so they can use this site as a portal to sell their own Softimage related tools... like MootZoid's stuff. If you set that up, i think i'd have extra reason to start building up a library of stuff i'd want to sell at a latter time after i've refined it all.... and with that goal set, I'm sure i'd share some free stuff along the way too. In that sense we might be able to bring more 'Pros' into the 'Sharing Community', even if its only through a sideways connection. A good example of this is at SetupTab.com, the Messiah3D community site... where they sell tutorial material for modest prices.

Also, i think this would be a perfect place to set up the Google Wave api as a built-in part of the site for open discussion and possible project collaboration. This idea really excites me because if its done really well, you may find people using it as a professional communication medium in a very serious way. It has the potential to get people involved in our community even if they don't really use Softimage, which can in turn get them using it.

Sorry for the rant.

[crossbone2007]

I think you advance some very valid points here. what I really hope you guys will work on is some softimage tutorials such as animating, rendering, modeling etc. Tutorials that will focus more on the production side. Personally I'm a student and I'm interesting in softimage, I'm even planing to buy the Autodesk Education Suite for Entertainment Creation 2010. But the pressure I face now is the lack of training for softimage. Yes I know there is redi-vivus.com, but is it enough? Many students would like to use SI but the lack of training and plug-in make them afraid to do so. I think this community would like to help anyone trying to join them. So that being said, I'm waiting patiently to see what you plan for the future of SI. I think many people Choose Maya or Max over SI just because you guys are not willing to support it. Look at the Maya community, he is flourishing just because their trainings materials address what users ask for. I expect the same from you guys.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Let your conscience be your guide.

[bryitis]

The Redi-Virus Tuts are more than enough my friend... there is a ton of good stuff there... i honestly find it hard to imagine anyone actually viewing/using the entire collection in its fullest without playing with XSI for at least a year. BTW, download 'Softimage Mod Tool' from the Autodesk website... its a free version of XSI that you can learn on for unlimited time, with only a few key restriction (like rendering, normal scene files, etc.)

But you bring up a good point that many of us who are experienced with XSI tend to forget. What was our learning path? I propose that there should be a new 'Sticky' post in the Tutorials section of this site titled "Beginners Start Here" where we could have a small beginners orientation and links to good resources for them to check out. XSI is such a huge application, its really easy to get lost in it. If its done right, newbs may never feel the need to buy "Orientation" Tuts from Digital Torture or elsewhere... which means the community as whole can spend more time focusing on advanced stuff.

[druitre]

My thoughts:

I'm a long-time Lightwave user (since the first version up till now) and as such have mainly experience on the Newtek forum. I started using XSI at 6.5 two years ago and what has always struck me about every XSI-related community site is the small amount of Q and A. Over at newtek's, I used to regularly log in just to browse for people needing answers 'cause I'd often be able to be of help. Sometimes simple and straightforward stuff (where is the function for this task) but also more hypothetical cases on how to achieve a certain effect. And when asking something myself, I could also be sure of lots of answers. Useful ones, too . No RTFM, in fact I didn't know what it stood for until seeing it repeatedly on XSIBase.

It could be that

a - all XSI users know exactly what to do and how to do it, so they don't need to ask questions
b - people do ask, but they don't get answers
c - the critical mass needed to get such a thing up and running is not there
d - (variation on c) there's not enough newbies versus experienced users (which is also a variation on a)

It took me quite a while to realize how XSI has been built upon SI and that a large part of the userbase has been using first SI, then XSI (now SI again). It may explain the lack of genuine 'starter' tuts, or insights into the structure of the program. Maybe XSI tends to attract people that are already versed in other packages? (Like me)

Anyway, for me, a big part of the attraction of a community like this is that it be an exchange of knowledge, a place where to look for answers and where to give them back where you can. Contests do not generally interest me. The ICE-centric approach would not interest me either, since I see ICE as only one fragment of a much larger software.

How it can become this hub of knowledge-exchange I don't know, I would say it's not in the hands of the administrators here but rather in how many new users are buying into XSI/SI Autodesk whatever. And if they then know about the existence of this community. Personally, I would not buy into XSI now, after the AD takeover and their crap updating policy. But they have the same policy for Max and Maya and they seem to fare well, so let's hope XSI will flourish. And this site along with it.

(Hope I'm not too negative... did I mention I'm not happy about AD?)

Jasper

[Hirazi Blue]

More than a month after the previous post in this thread. I get the distinct feeling not much has actually changed since then. There were some initiatives, but they didn't take off. And the fact, that this post is the first one today seems to say enough in itself. As nobody dares to ask the obvious question, I'll step up once more to ask the painfully obvious: what's going wrong here? (Thereby implying the question: what can we do to save this community from oblivion?)

[wailingmonkey]

Personally speaking, I visit between here and xsibase. Before this site was born, I visited the avid-hosted
site that was torn down when AD took over. That site was just starting to get momentum when the buyout
came. I do not visit 'the area'...not really sure why, but I think it is partially because of the actual website,
and partially due to me not feeling any love to AD.

I think the si-community site needs more active traffic and time to acquire it (users will feel more 'heritage'
as time passes and this site stays alive). The main purpose of my visiting this site is to potentially glean tips
and tricks that I may have otherwise not picked up elsewhere. I tend to save .mht pages of solutions to
problems. ;) That is also one of the main reasons I visit xsibase, but since there is such a large userbase
there, I also feel more likely to ask technical questions there. Perhaps part of the success of this site would
be in giving off the feeling that "no problem goes unsolved" for potential visitors to ask their questions. This
in turn would lead to more questions, and more traffic. But this is just theory based upon my motivation for
being here...

It is also quite appreciated that I don't have to necessarily 'login' to get compounds or other donated goodies.
It may seem small, but it is a convenience I value, and in exchange, I tend to vocally send my appreciation
to those that provide the goodies. I'm not sure how it could be done, but more incentive for folks to
provide goodies might mean more traffic (and hopefully interaction) between all community members...

Another potential for driving more traffic might be showcases dealing with how problems were solved in
real-world production using SI. And perhaps these threads could remain 'live' like XSIBlog, for instance,
such that follow-up questions could be asked/answered by folks looking to improve their SI knowledge...

Anyhow, sorry for the stream-of-consciousness response, but from my perspective, these are some of
the motivations and rationale for why I visit places like here and xsibase.

[septopus]

i would like to add that there is over 30 sections on this board, and you guys are only about a single app. the above mentioned ideas are all well but presentation and a more concise layout should be considered as much. the board is too crowded imo, i've never seen so many sections that could have been one! material + rendering sections? programming + plugins section, an fx tree upload section... really?

the SI community dislike posting on forums as it is already (for some reason). check other popular forums and check their xsi boards to see what i mean (even xsibase !? ).

dont clutter the board, make it short and sweet. less is more!

[septopus]

i would love to see a contest section. that would spark a lot of interest. if its a good topic, and not restrictive ( like cg society challenges)

how about a logo contest, or a mascot(character)design contest for si-community?

-----
setting up a irc channel helps too

[Hirazi Blue]

Well, the number of sections of this board might be something to consider, although I personally think this isn't the main problem, some people (including me) prefer the overcrowded clarity of many sections over the "vagueness" of only a few. And it's interesting to note, that XSIBase sports 27 sections also (and I don't care all that much about their front page)... But it is definitively something to consider... ;)
Contests would be nice! Let's see what the future holds!

[septopus]

you can do with 20 well-structured sections.
presentation is everything to me as art director and marketer.

a competition [with legitimate prizes] would surely help.

another thing, there are no ads on this forum [strategically placed and non-intrusive ads].

its good and bad, the bad: with no affiliations youre left funding and fueling the boards yourself, which is not easy; and more bad, promoting is hard, finding good mods, giving away prizes for contests, no interviews, no exclusive tuts or "how-to" articles or videos or 'behind the scenes' stuff.

the good: having partners, you can have -cleverly placed-ads on your site that promotes more user interaction, more traffic. you can cross-advertise your site with your affiliates, you can have better prizes in contests, you can attract more famous artists to moderate and give tips on the boards, you can have 'exclusive' interviews or 'behind the scenes' articles.
having 'carefully placed' ads, would surely help sustain the site and provide some 'incentives' to the creators of this board.

in the end its up to you to decide, if you want to go mainstream or remain somewhat 'underground'.

if up to me, i would seriously consider a redesign and take a more serious approach instead of an 'alternative to the area' approach.

my opinion.

[AlanMc]

Hello, my first post here.

In my opinion, community is about interactions between people. Therefore, you need to stimulate interaction - so what about a forum project? It could be ICE or anything. Or what about a review of some 3d/VFX work done with Softimage. In this option you could discuss/debate how a particular scene was created - and you may even get some of the people who were actually involved to drop in a give a few hints. You could also encourage some form of budget recreation, which would be kind of interesting.

These are the things that would bring me back to this forum again and again. I also think it would be better than the posting of tutorials as there is not as much set up time to get something prepared. And the community drives the direction of the learning.

Just my thought.

Regards,

Alan

[Hirazi Blue]

a competition [with legitimate prizes] would surely help.

Sure, a competition would be nice, but the thing is, as always:
what some people would call legitimate prizes, others would not...
(In other words: Don't expect any CGSociety kind of prizes here anytime soon, I'm afraid)

if up to me, i would seriously consider a redesign and take a more serious approach instead of an 'alternative to the area' approach.

Well, redesigning this site seems a bit drastic as it is participation and community building we're after, not necessarily selling ourselves! But hey, luckily that's not up to me, that's one for the Administrators (and especially "owei") to decide. I somewhat resent the implication, we're not taking a serious approach.
Have you been to the Area lately?
Even if being an "alternative to the area" were all we were attempting, which it isn't,
this seems quite serious business in itself.