Caching particles randomly works

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adrencg
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Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 04 Apr 2015, 18:59

It seems like using particle caches is always the wild card that can add hours to my workflow. I'm using a cache on file node, and it works about 50% of the time. Sometime I load the scene and have to remake the cache files to get it to work again.

Does anyone have a sure-fire consistent method of reading cached particles with instances that will work every time?

Bullit
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by Bullit » 06 Apr 2015, 04:03

Happened to me sometimes, but there was also some mistakes that i made like having the playing frame rate to "real time" instead of "all".

angelous4x
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by angelous4x » 06 Apr 2015, 05:07

sometimes you might need to have global time turned on in the current frame node.

adrencg
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 08 Apr 2015, 03:51

I've found something that seems mostly reliable.

When using a cache on file node, I keep it in the main pointcloud -- as opposed to putting it in a new empty pointcloud. I just set it from write to read, and unhook the emit node from the ICE tree. For some reason, that method runs the cached sim when re-opening the scene.

If I need to adjust and re-simulate + write, I set the chache node to "do nothing" and plug the emit node back in.

This stuff really is tricky and there's so many quirks that can pop up, like that error message that says "icecache file xxxx could not be found". But the file does exist on the drive.

Makes me want to put my foot through the monitor when this BS starts happening in the middle of time crunch deadline mode.

rodrisra
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by rodrisra » 09 Apr 2015, 20:54

Have you tried Alembic? You just select the ice cloud with instances, export to Alembic format with the default options. Then you just have to import this file in the same scene and voila, you may delete the original cloud, the imported cloud is cached forever and in every machine you open it.

adrencg
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 09 Apr 2015, 21:13

rodrisra wrote:Have you tried Alembic? You just select the ice cloud with instances, export to Alembic format with the default options. Then you just have to import this file in the same scene and voila, you may delete the original cloud, the imported cloud is cached forever and in every machine you open it.
Thanks but that didn't work. I get an error upon import Argument 0 is invalid

You see that row of pics at the top of this page? I feel like the guy on the far left.

adrencg
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 03 May 2015, 04:25

Arggghhhh this is driving me crazy. I have another scene that every time I load it, the cached particles aren't visible.

Then I re-write the cache and it can read again. Does someone have a final solution to this problem? I spend hours messing with particles trying to make them work properly. So much time lost.

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Tekano
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by Tekano » 03 May 2015, 16:04

perhaps not a solution but have encountered similar. I find that *sometimes* on a scene reload that pointcloud's operation stack gets reordered in the wrong way.

2 fixes in general.

1. the jiggle.
move the offending icetree up and then down again in stack. As long as there are other operators in the stack then this is a most common occurrence that you want the ice tree to appear at the top not at the bottom. moving it into Animation stack and out of modelling usually helps but no guarantee of order upon scene reload.

2. the restore
just make a new empty pointcloud, a new ice tree and a read on file cache node and *usually* the cache can be found again. I think this is a similar issue with the operator stack but with this is with the simulation stack being present or not. sometimes a jiggle of creating and deleting a simulation stack fixes problem also.

again, its intermittent and difficult to prove. otherwise one would assume it would have been fixed by now but this will give you some amunition.
Gossip is what no one claims to like, but everybody enjoys.

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FXDude
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by FXDude » 03 May 2015, 19:34

Did you also try writing though the cache manager? (like launching a render)
instead of going through a "write cache while playback node"?

adrencg
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 11 Jun 2015, 01:45

I dealt with this issue again today for about 3 hours. Softimage being killed by Autodesk will not make me switch to another software, but I seriously considered it today because of this particle problem. It's really insidious times 10.

Anyway, using the cache manager made it work properly.

valentine
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by valentine » 13 Jun 2015, 15:35

adrencg wrote:I dealt with this issue again today for about 3 hours. Softimage being killed by Autodesk will not make me switch to another software, but I seriously considered it today because of this particle problem. It's really insidious times 10.

Anyway, using the cache manager made it work properly.
100% Ack.! I've been dealing with this simulation- and caching-bullshit for 2 days now and I couldn't manage to make it work properly. It's such a pain in the butt to do even the simplest things like setting up a simulation duration via the environment or caching and rereading these files. I tried:

- reading the cache via the environment. FAIL! As soon as I reload the scene, it resimulates as well as rewrites (!) everything although the cache has been locked.
- reading the cache via cache on frame node didn't work at all, except giving me weird file-not-found error messages and the like.
- writing and reading via cache manager. That somewhat worked, but it incorporates the animation mixer and replaces the simulation, which both are things that aren't neccesarily an option for everyone.

It's beyond me, how such a simple thing like caching a simulation or setting a duration in which the simulation is calculated in, are implemented in such a cryptic and unreliable way. Everything is cluttered all over the system... Also, while researching the problems that arose during my simulation-attempts I couldn't find much information regarding this stuff. At some point I asked myself: »Am I the only one with that kind of problems or am I just dumb?«. Also while trying to get a deeper understanding of the mechanics behind ICE simulations and caching, the docs weren't of much help, too. They look like a messy cluster of randomly picked information like »click this, click that« w/o a thin red line that teaches the concepts of it...

By the way: I also wasn't able to find a way te reduce the gap that formed between the rigid bodies, when I use the Bullet rigid body solver #-o

adrencg
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 16 Jun 2015, 02:35

valentine wrote:
adrencg wrote:I dealt with this issue again today for about 3 hours. Softimage being killed by Autodesk will not make me switch to another software, but I seriously considered it today because of this particle problem. It's really insidious times 10.

Anyway, using the cache manager made it work properly.
100% Ack.! I've been dealing with this simulation- and caching-bullshit for 2 days now and I couldn't manage to make it work properly. It's such a pain in the butt to do even the simplest things like setting up a simulation duration via the environment or caching and rereading these files. I tried:

- reading the cache via the environment. FAIL! As soon as I reload the scene, it resimulates as well as rewrites (!) everything although the cache has been locked.
- reading the cache via cache on frame node didn't work at all, except giving me weird file-not-found error messages and the like.
- writing and reading via cache manager. That somewhat worked, but it incorporates the animation mixer and replaces the simulation, which both are things that aren't neccesarily an option for everyone.

It's beyond me, how such a simple thing like caching a simulation or setting a duration in which the simulation is calculated in, are implemented in such a cryptic and unreliable way. Everything is cluttered all over the system... Also, while researching the problems that arose during my simulation-attempts I couldn't find much information regarding this stuff. At some point I asked myself: »Am I the only one with that kind of problems or am I just dumb?«. Also while trying to get a deeper understanding of the mechanics behind ICE simulations and caching, the docs weren't of much help, too. They look like a messy cluster of randomly picked information like »click this, click that« w/o a thin red line that teaches the concepts of it...

By the way: I also wasn't able to find a way te reduce the gap that formed between the rigid bodies, when I use the Bullet rigid body solver #-o
yeah...it's a bunch of bullshit and I'm dealing with it right now again. The cache manager worked for a while, but today when I opened the scene to prepare it for render I can't get the particles to read again.

adrencg
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Joined: 05 May 2012, 00:50

Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by adrencg » 16 Jun 2015, 02:36

Maybe a dumb question...do simulation absolutely need to be cached to render properly on a farm? If yes, then I have to render this animation on one computer because I've already spent at least 6 extra hours trying to make this work.

Bullit
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Re: Caching particles randomly works

Post by Bullit » 16 Jun 2015, 23:59

I would say depends on render engine.

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