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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 06 Aug 2011, 15:39 
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 12:12
Posts: 97
Location: Granada, Spain
Chris_TC wrote:
Yes, it's been a while since I posted an update. But I have kept on working on this. I've done a ton of stuff under the hood to ensure proper usability. I don't know how often I've modified my split compound now, but it's become a powerhouse, so that was worth it.

I'm planning on showing the current functionality in a video hopefully on Monday.



hey Chris, any news?

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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2011, 06:41 
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Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 22:45
Posts: 172
Location: tehran-iran
any news.!? \m/


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2011, 12:07 
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010, 18:43
Posts: 391
I don't want to give ETAs anymore, but I'll show something soon.


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2011, 08:46 
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Joined: 05 Sep 2011, 22:57
Posts: 43
Location: Berlin
awesome stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 17 Feb 2012, 03:08 
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Joined: 09 Jun 2009, 15:45
Posts: 812
hey chris, just hope you didnt stop workin on this! i'm deeply interested even in a commercial release!
This is just awesome. Any news about it?

Max


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 20:29 
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010, 18:43
Posts: 391
Caution: Lots of text ahead. Also, I could use some input from smart people B-)

We've had (and still do have) tons of work, so I couldn't put much time aside for these compounds. However, over the past weeks several clients have required us to put facades on CAD buildings. The CAD people seem to have trouble with this, so we take care of it. This kind of thing comes up more and more because we get good and very fast results, all thanks to the building generator compounds.

We've used them on some rather high profile projects, including a $40 million building, which we received as a simple box layout and outfitted with fully procedural facades based on architect drawings. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to show any of the work we did :-(

So I now have production experience with the system, and apart from a few missing features, there are two main problems: performance and usability. Usability is the biggest issue: You can get almost any result you want, but the node tree gets complicated on anything but the simplest facade. Because of these problems, I'll rework a lot of the system. In its current state I don't think anybody except for myself could make somewhat efficient use of it.

I'm wondering about a few core questions, and it'd be great if someone had any pointers in the right direction:
1) The system uses integers for a lot of things. Select Case nodes then make decisions based on these numbers. Unfortunately, numbers are not very user-friendly. Are there ways to do more with strings? I would love to be able to write "lower_floor" into my custom attribute, rather than "1". Anybody have any tricks up their sleeve?

2) Nodes need to pass a lot of attributes between them. I believe I had previously brought up the idea of using a 4x4 matrix to encode and decode up to 16 attributes (at least 7 of which I need for actual SRT information). I still like this idea because I could have an encoder compound with 16 inputs and one output. This one output is easy for users to connect to other nodes, which is great. Unfortunately, 16 attributes will likely not be enough. However, if I were to use custom attributes, I'd have to also use Set Data nodes, which require Execute ports. I don't see how I could then have a simple encoder compound with one output port that can be connected to another compound. I think I'd need two output ports: one to Set Data, the other to connect to other compounds (Edit: actually, this wouldn't work. I'd need one output port per attribute. That's awful!) Usability would be shot to pieces. Any ideas?

3) Regarding performance, are there any decent ways to bring scripting into the mix? A lot of the math that happens in the ICE trees is recursive, and code would be much faster to execute this stuff. Of course ICE is very cool in how it allows users to just connect my compounds together, so I don't want to drop it alltogether. Custom C++ nodes are my best bet I think, but is this the only option? I'm fine with Python and Jscript, practically no experience with C++.

Sorry for the wall of text and no pretty pictures. I'll see if I can post something during the next days.


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 21:00 
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Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 18:46
Posts: 293
Thanks for the update, Chris. :)

EDIT: Perhaps you could use Select Case, but expose it as String names. ie Lower Floor, Upper Floor. Your building project is probably much too complex for that though; Select Case would probably be too limiting....


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 21:17 
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Joined: 22 Mar 2010, 18:43
Posts: 391
Sure, since word about our quick facade output is getting around, I'll probably have to get these compounds up to speed in order to maintain my own sanity while working with them. So there's a really good chance I'll get them to a point where I can actually release them.

dwigfor wrote:
Perhaps you could use Select Case, but expose it as String names. ie Lower Floor, Upper Floor

Just to expand a little bit on the problem: Users who want to make a custom building need to generate the ICE logic for that particular building. I would love for this process to just require the connecting of compounds. However, I don't think that's possible. So the user has to specify a splitting structure, for example (simplified):
Split every base facade into a ground floor and a top floor.
Split every ground floor into three windows and a door.
Split every top floor into five windows and five balconies.

All of these elements are currently represented as integers, then interpreted by Select Case nodes. So users have to specify not the above, but this:
Split every 0 into a 1 and 3.
Split every 1 into three 8s and a 9.
Split every 3 into five 8s and five 12s.

When working with this, all the numbers quickly get confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 21:52 
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Joined: 19 Mar 2010, 00:38
Posts: 442
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Maybe a divide and conquer attitude need to be adopted, example

a node for a bottom floor attributes
a node for the walls attributes
a node for the door attributes
a node for the ceiling, roof, windows, etc.

The role of those nodes would be to hold the number attributes and pass them to the main system.

I have no idea how complex you ice tree/compounds are and how it is organised, so just guessing here!

Dan

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 Post subject: Re: City Generation
PostPosted: 11 Apr 2013, 21:57 
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Joined: 24 May 2012, 09:44
Posts: 469
What about per material instead?
I mean a wall made of wood is similar to rooftop or floor.
A wall made of stone is very different from a wall made of wood or concrete.

About trigger by strings i have got this answer http://www.si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3510

Maybe a list of keywords related to building might help:

No particular order:
material
facade
floor
windows
door
balcony
roof
ornament?

Facade designed black and white/color intensity image? ex. darker more distant brighter more upfront. Going for city generation this could also be employed to draw roads. Crazy idea but if ICE could recognize a number or a string in an image it might be able to use it. Or a number in 3d put over the respective color or brightness.


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