"ink" rendering

Discussions about rendering in SOFTIMAGE©
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Kerro Perro
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"ink" rendering

Post by Kerro Perro » 16 Apr 2012, 22:38

Hi guys, for the last few weeks i've been fiddling with trying to get a good ink render, i'm hoping to use it for a project mixing 2d and 3d.
I was very inspired when i saw Damien Nenow's Paths of Hate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZn65LA2w90 as he really made a comic book come alive! (here he talks about his workflow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBovH7_um_s)

The look for my lines i would really want is that of the great Moebius (RIP) : https://www.google.nl/search?q=moebius& ... KAOuPYoMMJ

Basically i want to simulate a rotring inking style - consistent line thickness with perhaps a little wobble and some "interruptions" - not all lines are constant, little breaks.

Now i plan to do a lot with textures maps like mr.Nenow but i'm having some trouble with getting the "base" lines right:

Image

Mental Ray Toon Ink Lens

The main problem i have with this one is the "spread" - the line width and line detection are annoyingly linked: when you want more line detection (and i usually do) the line also get thicker and it even starts do some blotchiness in parts. Also it suffers from "bunching" - when you zoom out little details will turn black because lines are getting too close together. Consistent line thickness is good but it should have some sort of override when lines start bunching. Now you can overcome this somewhat by giving small objects a lower threshold with distance but this doesn't work for everything, note the pilot's fingers.

3Delight Toon Ink Lens

Faster even with just the two free cores but a lot of the options don't work so you have the same problems as with MR but there's less you can do about them...
And speed isn't that much of a factor as it's all fairly fast.

VRayToon

This has the good thing of seperating the line detection (normal threshold and overlap threshold) from the line width. Also you can plug in some nodes to get a little bit of play in the line style like varying opacity. Big downside is very little other options - you can only include or exclude objects, no host material.

Incidence plus Photoshop

This is this method http://www.3dluvr.com/rogueldr/tutorial ... n_ink.html and although it tends to not suffer from buncing it has a brush like effect in the lines - nice but not what i'm looking for unfortunately.

I look at envy at cebas finaltoon for and sketch and toon for cinema 4d - any way to get such broad effects in SI? When i read up on things like Tekkon Kinkreet and the Animatrix done in xsi back in the day they often talk about "custom shaders" but i can't really find any tutorials to point me in the direction of doing more than just playing with Toon Ink Lens settings... Any thoughts/tips/pointers would be most welcome!

(oh and yes i've seen the Tod Akita and Kim Aldis NPR vids on youtube)

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Kerro Perro
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Re: "ink" rendering

Post by Kerro Perro » 17 Apr 2012, 19:54

Well i don't mean to bump but i'm a little farther along: seems like MR Toon Ink Lens is still my best bet - i've had some interesting results by plugging in fractals and such into the variation and spread slot. Also i'm thinking abot doing a second ink pass with incidence plugged into the spread wich makes the Photoshop method unnecessary.

And some of the Todd Akita stuff of generating lines by color maps and clusters warrants some more experimentation.

I'll post any other developments in a WIP-thread unless someone has a great suggestion they want to share. :ympeace:

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pdesopo
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Re: "ink" rendering

Post by pdesopo » 29 Apr 2012, 22:34

It would definitely something really interesting to read more about, as so far I haven't found many tutorials around either.
I guess you already saw this: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/it ... eID=123112
there also should be a link to a zip particles file created by the director but it seems the link is gone.

On this other page there seems to be a youtube video (XSI clearly visible in the clip img.) but the clip is gone too: http://pingmag.jp/2006/11/22/making-tai ... nto-anime/

And there should be a shader that looks pretty nice here: http://www.dl3d.com/wiki/doku.php?id=xt ... ondocstart
but I cannot actually find much about that shader, if not something here: http://www.dl3d.com/index.php/en/downlo ... aders.html
and btw, this is how that shader turns out to look: http://www.alesik.de/#/comic/ryu

I know, is not much help. Funny how when I started with C4D I was looking with some envy at what they were doing in terms of toon shading on XSI before Sketch & Toon appeared on C4D.
I didn't looked at other Mental Ray resources yet (for Maya or Max), maybe there's something more in that case?

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Kerro Perro
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Re: "ink" rendering

Post by Kerro Perro » 03 May 2012, 20:47

Hi Piero,

yes thanks for all the links but indeed i knew of these things - especially the work that Studio 4C and Micheal Arias has done is a great inspiration to me!

As for the shader i don't think it does anything special that you can't do in the render tree with gradients and incidence etc. - it was mostly the ink line i was struggling with. But right now i have them at a level i'm pleased with: http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/ ... 4xmd9m.png

I'm currently working on making a video for this music: http://soundcloud.com/iconsofandria/the-universal-way in the style of this artist : http://farawayforest.deviantart.com/ (or at least close to it) and doing some tests on the animation side but as soon as i get to the shading/rendering/composting i'm gonna start a WIP thread!

What NPR work have you done with C4D? I'm curious what i'm missing! ;)

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